Question about shift speed and RPMs for your Bonneville,
 

Well, Ben's Bonneville actually,

Please, anyone that has a 3:69 to 3:73 gear with a 1.112 final drive please suggest the following for Ben's car.

Ben has an L36 with a 4T60-E with a 2800 stall TC and I need rough estimates:

Recommended RPM rev limiter for spark control?
I will also use this as a reference for the fuel cut-off RPM.

Recommended RPM for 1>2 & 2>3 shift?
If O don't get a good rough estimate Ben and I will simply drive the car, bounce the rev limiter and make it up, I was just hopeful to save some time.

Recommended WOT PRM for 1>2 & 2>3 shift?
Same as above comment, just looking for reference date.
Thanks,

Any other items for Mr. Ben?
I'm already setting the MPH limiter to 175 mph.
Fan turn-on temps for stage 1 & 2 will be related to the t-stat temp range.
Speedo calibration.
look into STFT & LTFT's.
Clean MAF sensor then Cal MAF / AF ratio.
TCC duty cycle.
Maybe shift timings.
If he has the parameters, maybe I'll talk him into installing the perf shift button, or at least a switch to the same effect.

Thomas, you're not likely to find any setup here remotely close to that retar.....umm...unique piece of machinery.

You're likely to get alot of opinions here, but in all honesty, 3800pro or (god forbid) CGP may net better results.

Thanks, in that case, we'll just burn his gas and do it from scratch.. No problem.

pmed with my thoughts...

Re: Question about shift speed and RPMs for your Bonneville,
 

The 1.12 you're referring to would be the stock Drive_Sprocket_Ratio. Was his gear and chainset changed to equate to a 3.69 set? 1.12 would be for the stock 3.06 I guess, then 1 for the 3.29 and likely .84 for the 3.69s.

That's up to Ben, but anything past 6250 rpm on the street seems a little much.

Don't forget to set the MPH as well, both the RPM and MPH must be set for the 4T65E, not sure how the 4T60 works.

A tranny in good shape will take at least 200 to 300 RPM to complete the shift, up to 500 RPM if it's worn a bit. Make sure your expected completed shift RPM is below the value set for the rev limiter.

If you need more info on the stock setting then drop me an email.

Cheers,

Very nice, thanks,

It good just to get the tips of the world of Bonneville.

Since it has a stock pump I wouldn't go past 6200 rpms for shifting WOT.
I would say its also a good place to shift due to retarding the timing.
After you shift you want to be at peak power, unless it drops off rapidly.
Money permitting, a new dyno would show you the best place to shift.

Are yo saying the 4T60-E has a shotty fluid pump?

I think I have received some good information and I'll download his program first and make a few slight adjustments before we hit the road and start drivablity tuning. I don't know about a dyno thou.
I have a wideband, I was thinking about getting a spare harness, its like $55.00 and this would allow me to plug it into the cig lighter and stuff the sensor in the tailpipe like they do on the Dyno's. This should make it easier to tune most cars.

Yep. It has 9 vanes vs the 65's 11.
I had my gm reman 4t60-e shifting at 6600 and after a couple wot runs it couldn't maintain enough line pressure to shift. I changed the fluid and bumped the shifts back down to 6400. I rarely went wot since I was trying to make the trans last but it did shift at 6400 after that.
I've also read that the efficiency of the 60 pump drops drastically after 5800.

Ok, thanks,
Interesting, I have the manual for all the GM transaxels and never really counted the pump impellers.

I guess we need to be sure to take care of Ben's trans then.
Maybe I'll have to get Ben a slot at ADC... Arizona Dyno Chip and see where his torque curve is and give him the best shift we can in the high 5k rpm range. We don't want to hose him up with a disposable trans now do we.

We can log a few shifts and time the shifts to see how long they are taking.
With my GTP - 4T65-E I can change the timing of the shift so with 80% or greater throttle, I can decide actually, I can reduce the shift timing. e.g. with my race program my 1>2 and 2.3 shifts are less then one second. I believe I actually increased the time because it was breaking the tires loose too much on the 1>2 shift and it was effecting the et slightly.
Anyway....Hopefully Ben's 97 Bonneville has a simmilliar parameter.

Ok, Later,

I don't know much about the 4t60 but I know the 4t65-HD like I'm running is rated stock up to 6500 rpm in 1st gear but only 6200 in 2nd and 3rd.
This info was posted on a GM site 5 years ago but it's gone now.

Stock the 1-2 shift was 5500 rpm 1-2 and 5200 2-3

Now with the INTENSE PCM the 1-2 shift is 6100 rpm and 6000 2-3
It is limited to 6200 if held manually in gear.

If you're willing to do some dyno tuning I might be interested. Depends completely on the cost. Not sure if you're wanting me to do a single pull or maybe book an hour, but we'll talk about it.

I would like to see my WOT shifts somewhere in the 6200rpm range, with the rev limiter set at ~6400prm. I think that might be a safe point, though I'm not sure where my TQ and HP are peaking since the cam timing change. Here's a picture of my previous dyno with the current PCM program and 6* advanced cam timing:

Attachment 54176

Based on the DesktopDyno projections Doug has been running, we think my HP peak is somewhere closer to 6000rpm after the timing change. The only way to really know is to put it back on the dyno ;)

My actual figures are saying somewhere around 5950.

Ok Ben,
How about next weekend?
I am kinda filled up for this afternoon already.

Maybe Saturday 2/3? or Sunday 2/4?

And how are you dong with the Autotap? Are you figuring anything out? I was wondering if you can test the trans temps by recording average trans temps with the cooler configuration as is... then changing it so you go thru the radiator first then thru the cooler. I think it will work better for you if you go thru the radiaor first but hey... the proof is in the data.

Make your list Mr.

Later,

One of those days might work. My wife is getting her wisdom teeth taken out this Thursday and her sister is coming to town on Saturday, so it may be a bit of a madhouse. I'll see what the word on the street is, then get back to you.

As far as the trans cooler is concerned, I left my 90 degree radiator fitting down at your house. Unfortunately I need it to hook up the radiator in series with auxiliary cooler, so I'll either see about picking up another one or else wait until I get back down to your place. Whatever the case may be, I don't think trans fluid temp is doing anything detrimental at this point, and shouldn't affect the way the PCM is shifting. Still, I agree that the data should be collected in both configurations.

As far as the Autotap goes, I haven't had a chance to use it yet. With the houseguests we hosted last week I had no time to think about scanning the car. I'll get on it this week and relay any pertinent findings.

I'm also wondering if you might be interested in trying to salvage my trunk latch whenever we get together to tune. Bob found me a good trunk in a local junkyard for $80, but if we can fix it on the cheap I would prefer to save money. Let me know what you think.

Ok Ben,
Let me know when you think the tune time will come together, I'm flexable.

Give me an hour or so notice that you are heading to my house and we can get it taken care of.

I can mail the fitting to you if you like, not a problem. If I mail it Monday you should have it Tuesday.

As far as your trunk,
I think we can fab something up with almost no effort, maybe Bob might want to score the trunk for any other Bonneville member in the SouthWest that may need it. Either way, I'm easy..

And I must apologize to everyone else in the club who has been waiting to see the car running strong.... I had visitors in from Florida since Tuesday, and was left with no time to check posts on the club or do any work on the car. You'll all have to put up with Doug's incessant "Is it done yet?" posts for another week until I can head down to Thomas' house for a tune :P. I'm still waiting to see if Saturday or Sunday will be better, but rest assured that the car is in good hands and will be hitting the dragstrip sometime in the next couple months.

Thomas, if you think we can fix my trunk easily I want to give it a try. Money is very tight, and if I can save a few bucks on the trunk latch I'll be able to get to the dragstrip sooner :twisted:. I'll be in touch about a final time for tuning.

Quite running your lips and go break into the fricken 14's before my local track opens (april) and i do. :D

:P .... :lol:

What has Ben been able to ET in the past?

I'd like to get Bob below 14.5 this year, 8)

My PB is 15.178 @ 92.60. My 60' time was only a 2.306, so I think I should've been in the 14s already :?. Hopefully I'll be contending with Bob this spring.

Ben, that PB was with a lot of tire spin at Speedworld. I think Firebird will be better off of the line and overall 14's are just a matter of getting it tuned and hitting the track.

I would very much like to get below 14.5 (or better :twisted: ). Now that you have the ability to tune my Bonne, I think improvements are close at hand. Thanks for the support Thomas. :thumbup: (My real ultimate goal would be to get yelled at by the guy in the timing shack after a run, saying "If you want to run anymore, tonight, you need a helmet ;) )

I am loving this Ben. I cant wait to get a few L36 bonne's in the 14's. Damn mob bug, it is taking all my money. I cant wait til spring, april 3rd cant come fast enough.

Lol... yeah TJ, when your racing season begins, mine will be ending until next October or November! It's just too hot here to run good times in the summer. 100 degrees at 11pm is not drag racing weather!

So lets get this thing tuned and head to Firebird!

Well, lol it is good for drag racing, just not for PB's. :D

So I was planning on heading to Firebird this weekend.
The Top Fuel NHRA boys "and girls" where practicing last weekend Saturday and Sunday so the track should be in pretty good shape right now :thumbup2:

Run the 'Vette!

Yup....good time to hit 11's Mr. T 8)

You better call me if your going, so I can play "pit crew" ;)

Bob, let me know if you're going down there and I'll hide in your trunk when you go through the gate ;)

I've seen YOUR trunk.....there is no way in H.E.L.L. you are getting ANYWHERE near, mine. ;)

Back on topic, boys. So...does T have all the info he needs for shft points and whatnot? :?

Well, its rained all day here in Chandler. That means the track just went south.

I still might go, I just lost my motivation.

As far as Ben's can, it needs at least an hour to go thru it, test the AF ratio and the trans tuning before we go to the track.

The GTP is totally out of gas, I ordered some Torco, if it comes then I have regained my motivation. ;)

Thomas, YGPM.

Bob, I promise I'll be gentle with your latch ;) :shock: :lol: