Permantly removing balancer shaft - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-25-2007, 06:39 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
sheriffwoody is on a distinguished road
Default Permantly removing balancer shaft

For strickly performance reasons: has anyone ever heard or removing the top balancer shaft and pluggin the oil holes? Im using a 93 3.8 supercharged motor in a sandrail and dont really car about a smooth engine.
Thanks in advance.
sheriffwoody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 07:32 PM   #2
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
toastedoats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Fitchburg Ma _ToastedRice_
Posts: 6,837
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
toastedoats is on a distinguished road
Default

i dont know of anyone here doing it, but there used to ba alot of talk about balance shaft removal on series II motors on www.3800pro.com
toastedoats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 07:35 PM   #3
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default

Give it a whirl. It'* not going to gain you a noticeable amount. My personal opinion would be that it'* not worth the trouble for the gain. But if you are looking for every scrap of power, more power to you.

Have you torn the engine down yet?
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2007, 08:17 PM   #4
Senior Member
Posts like a Supercharger
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 170
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Drunken Sailor is on a distinguished road
Default

My "stubborn mechanic advice" is to not remove the balance shaft, on any engine. Now I certainly don't know as much about the Series 1 3800 as some people here.

The balance shaft on any engine is not there for the customer (driver). People have this false impression that it'* there to make the engine feel smoother and reduce vibration inside the car. While it does do some of this, that blance shaft is really there to cancel out the small vibrations; the ones we can't even feel; that could eventually let the engine litterally shake itself appart. It'* there to protect the engine above all else. Like I said, I've never removed the balance shaft from a 3800, but I think back to an exersize back in trade school where we removed balance shafts from several import motors and not one of them ran for longer than 2 hours on the dyno before they died.
Drunken Sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 12:03 AM   #5
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sauk Centre, MN
Posts: 5,458
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
OLBlueEyesBonne is on a distinguished road
Default

This was (maybe still is) a popular item to remove from the 2.5 Turbo Mopar engines from 89-92. Never knew if the engines blew from the balance shafts or just because the engines were THAT poor.
I know those engines didn't come with knock sensors, so I am sure that removing them was detrimental.
We have knock sensors on the 3800, so if we remove them I suspect the knock sensor will pick up noise caused from their removal, thus you would have more KR. Not a very worthy investment of time and gaskets.
But then how do we set new limits without testing the old ones?
OLBlueEyesBonne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 12:25 AM   #6
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: In your garage, swipin' da lug nutz
Posts: 3,067
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
sandrock is on a distinguished road
Default

OlBlue, the 2.2/2.5 Turbos had knock sensors (others didn't), and only the 2.5 had the balance shafts (all configurations). Yes, it is a real popular mod with this engine (as is doing it to the mitsubishi 2.6) and it does gain a few hp, but as Bill pointed out, the gain isn't worth the cost of removing the assembly.
sandrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 05:14 AM   #7
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Holt, MI & Lima, OH
Posts: 3,022
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
dbtk2 is on a distinguished road
Default

As was said, the balance shaft is not there for driver comfort. The balance shaft is there to reduce engine vibrations to save your engine from vibrating itself a part. Yeah it doesn't make a huge difference in vibrations, but it helps. Removing it would gain you a little power, but not a whole lot. Personally, this is the only reason why I am still running a stock style timing chain with my setup is because I want to keep my balance shaft. A double roller doesn't allow me to do this. :(
dbtk2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 11:58 AM   #8
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Purgatory
Posts: 533
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Greyhare is on a distinguished road
Default

My guess is that removing the balance shaft would have the same basic effect as replacing the harmonic damper with a light weight pulley.

This can lead to bearing failure. Here is a good tech article about harmonic dampers.

http://www.atiperformanceproducts.co...mper_dinan.htm
Greyhare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 02:06 PM   #9
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Westerville, Ohio 2000 Black SSEi
Posts: 6,127
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rogue is on a distinguished road
Default

The only reason to remove the balance shaft is if you are installing a double roller timing set that necessitates the removal of the gear that drives the balance shaft. I disconnected mine once and had a noticable vibration at 1500 rpm.
Rogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 03:29 PM   #10
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
banned3800 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Give it a whirl. It'* not going to gain you a noticeable amount. My personal opinion would be that it'* not worth the trouble for the gain. But if you are looking for every scrap of power, more power to you.

Have you torn the engine down yet?
I agree... I'd have to say go drive a 3.0 85-88 or 3.8 87-88 FWD GM car... see if you could live with the vibration... They jiggle and vibrate from idle through a good 1500 Rpms.. The 3300 V6 would be simmilar as it did not use a Balance Shaft..

__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
banned3800 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Removing intermediate shaft on trail blazer EricWheeler2009 GMC/Chevrolet Truck/SUV 0 11-22-2012 05:04 PM
Removing Harmonic Balancer dandyd 1992-1999 1 07-02-2005 10:41 PM
Symptoms of Cam/Balancer shaft bearing Failure newpontiac 1987-1991 1 01-12-2005 03:30 PM
Removing Throttle Body without removing exhaust and shield? Hans 1992-1999 5 11-17-2004 04:52 PM
Harmonic Balancer Stuck!! Gabriel 1992-1999 11 08-30-2003 06:46 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:23 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.