Parts advice before purchase of lifters, etc. - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-27-2008, 02:34 AM   #1
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lancaster, South Carolina
Posts: 233
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
spidey3479 is on a distinguished road
Default Parts advice before purchase of lifters, etc.

I think I have a lead on a couple of cams to be ground by Colt cams, YAY!!! Should I go ahead and replace all lifters or have my mech just chk and see what will be needed. The car has 130,000 miles on it and does not smoke clack or leak. When I am done I want to drive her some and drag her more. In case anyone doesn't know, I have had the original tranny rebuilt with a performance package, shift kit, and 500 over stock stall tranny. The cam is to be reground to extend duration w/o diminishing spark, to get more low end torque. (I still have to have consultation with Colt Cams on the regrind so I could be totally wrong in what I want or how to get that frm the regrind of my cam.) I just need to get advice on the lifters and such.
spidey3479 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 02:44 AM   #2
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Purgatory
Posts: 6,313
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
PontiacDad is on a distinguished road
Default

Stock rockers should be fine with your can grind, but you should up to ls6 or 105ftlb springs.
And for sure swap out all the lifters with a new cam. As well new timming chain, dampener and consider the push rods.
PontiacDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 05:43 AM   #3
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,816
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
GonneVille is on a distinguished road
Default

I thought the LN3 and S1 had cylindrical springs?
IIRC S2, and LSx, have beehive springs? Incompatible?
GonneVille is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2008, 09:00 AM   #4
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default

Correct.

He'll need to run the same springs I do, not the beehive S2 springs.
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2008, 12:48 AM   #5
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lancaster, South Carolina
Posts: 233
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
spidey3479 is on a distinguished road
Default

Will I have to specifically ask for those springs? Are they pretty easy to find? Will Summit have anything I need?
spidey3479 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2008, 09:27 AM   #6
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default

Summit doesn't LIST anything for your car, nor does compcams. Here'* a very small snapshot of what it takes to determine the correct spring:

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Whaddya think about this one?

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Quote:
CCA-983-12 $55.39
Estimated Ship Date: Today
Application Warranty Show All

Brand: COMP Cams
Product Line: COMP Cams Valve Springs
Number of Springs Per Valve: Single
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.250 in.
Coil Bind Height (in): 1.150 in.
Damper Spring Included: No
Spring Rate (lbs/in): 410 lbs./in.
Inside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 0.836 in.
Inside Diameter of Inner Spring (in): 0.836 in.
Valve Spring Style: Ovate wire
Coated: No
Quantity: Sold as a set of 12.

Valve Springs, Single, 1.250 in. Outside Diameter, 410 lbs./in. Rate, 1.150 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 12


Recommended Camshaft Style Roller hydraulic
Installed Height (in) 1.700 in.
Seat Pressure at Installed Height (lbs) 105 lbs.
Open Height (in) 1.200 in.
Open Pressure (lbs) 310 lbs.
Going back to this. My measurement on the spring showed an open valve spring height with 1.8 rockers as being 1.35". The spring above doesn't bind until 1.150". That'* good. Stock spring force at 1.35" will be around the 220 mark (1.3 was 245, 1.4 was 192 when I measured). Using this calculator:
http://www.engineersedge.com/calcula...spring_pop.htm

I get a rate of 320 using 1.4", and 350 at 1.3".

The springs listed above will be 287 pounds at 1.35" with 1.8 rockers as opposed to 225ish with stock springs, valve open force. Not too bad.

Using 1.72 as the install height (from my most careful measurement) I have 114#. 102# at 1.75". I think we're in the ballpark here. As an acid test, I measured spring bind on our stockers at 1.25"/377 lbs. These springs above would actually be 307.5 at 1.25".

So the rate is higher as the valve sits closed, and is slightly higher as well at valve open, but is slightly lower at coil bind. That'* what we want if these numbers are good.

Check me on this. I need to order them!
That'* about 2% of the total conversation, work, and calculations used to determine them. Those are the springs I used, and SHOULD be the springs you need. I'd prefer to have you remove an OEM spring and measure it. Also measure your install height just to be sure after you remove a rocker arm.
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 11:42 PM   #7
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lancaster, South Carolina
Posts: 233
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
spidey3479 is on a distinguished road
Default

Will the guy at Colt Cams be able to tell me what springs will be needed for what he is grinding for? He really seems to know his stuff. When he gets the cam he said he will need to talk about specs and such before he starts work. I will make notes of everything you have here and relay that info to him.
spidey3479 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 12:21 AM   #8
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default

I wouldn't expect him to know unless he'* very knowledgable about the 3800 specifically. Unfortunately for you, when it comes to S1 (and previous) valvesprings, you're going to fall into the realm of John Wikoff and I.

And I'm running them.
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 05:13 PM   #9
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lancaster, South Carolina
Posts: 233
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
spidey3479 is on a distinguished road
Default

OK, cool, I'll just stick with your advice and relay it to the guys at summit.
spidey3479 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 05:01 PM   #10
Senior Member
Posts like a Supercharger
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 170
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Drunken Sailor is on a distinguished road
Default

I've been talking with Geoff at Colt Cams. He'* not too knowledgeable on the 3800 specifically, as he does cams for just about everything. He'* got some good LN3 profiles in the computer already, which is what you're probably getting. He'* got no Series 1 L27/L67 profiles right now, but we will soon be working on that.

Those Comp springs should be good. Can you post the specs for the cam you're looking at? I fresh set of stockers might be all you need.
Drunken Sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How due you prep new lifters before you install them DeathDealer General GM Chat 14 08-17-2012 03:05 PM
Q's before purchase 2000 Bonneville athurber Pontiac Bonneville 15 04-19-2012 11:30 AM
Wanting to wax etc etc but dont know how any tips? calaeb0896 Detailing & Appearance 1 04-04-2008 04:52 PM
Not starting, locks aren't working, etc. etc. Goo551 1992-1999 19 01-20-2006 08:13 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:06 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.