Parts advice before purchase of lifters, etc.
02-27-2008, 01:34 AM
#1
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lancaster, South Carolina
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Parts advice before purchase of lifters, etc.
I think I have a lead on a couple of cams to be ground by Colt cams, YAY!!! Should I go ahead and replace all lifters or have my mech just chk and see what will be needed. The car has 130,000 miles on it and does not smoke clack or leak. When I am done I want to drive her some and drag her more. In case anyone doesn't know, I have had the original tranny rebuilt with a performance package, shift kit, and 500 over stock stall tranny. The cam is to be reground to extend duration w/o diminishing spark, to get more low end torque. (I still have to have consultation with Colt Cams on the regrind so I could be totally wrong in what I want or how to get that frm the regrind of my cam.) I just need to get advice on the lifters and such.
02-27-2008, 01:44 AM
#2
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Purgatory
Posts: 6,313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stock rockers should be fine with your can grind, but you should up to ls6 or 105ftlb springs.
And for sure swap out all the lifters with a new cam. As well new timming chain, dampener and consider the push rods.
And for sure swap out all the lifters with a new cam. As well new timming chain, dampener and consider the push rods.
02-27-2008, 11:48 PM
#5
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lancaster, South Carolina
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Will I have to specifically ask for those springs? Are they pretty easy to find? Will Summit have anything I need?
02-28-2008, 08:27 AM
#6
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
Summit doesn't LIST anything for your car, nor does compcams. Here'* a very small snapshot of what it takes to determine the correct spring:
Going back to this. My measurement on the spring showed an open valve spring height with 1.8 rockers as being 1.35". The spring above doesn't bind until 1.150". That'* good. Stock spring force at 1.35" will be around the 220 mark (1.3 was 245, 1.4 was 192 when I measured). Using this calculator:
http://www.engineersedge.com/calcula...spring_pop.htm
I get a rate of 320 using 1.4", and 350 at 1.3".
The springs listed above will be 287 pounds at 1.35" with 1.8 rockers as opposed to 225ish with stock springs, valve open force. Not too bad.
Using 1.72 as the install height (from my most careful measurement) I have 114#. 102# at 1.75". I think we're in the ballpark here. As an acid test, I measured spring bind on our stockers at 1.25"/377 lbs. These springs above would actually be 307.5 at 1.25".
So the rate is higher as the valve sits closed, and is slightly higher as well at valve open, but is slightly lower at coil bind. That'* what we want if these numbers are good.
Check me on this. I need to order them!
That'* about 2% of the total conversation, work, and calculations used to determine them. Those are the springs I used, and SHOULD be the springs you need. I'd prefer to have you remove an OEM spring and measure it. Also measure your install height just to be sure after you remove a rocker arm.
Originally Posted by willwren
Originally Posted by willwren
Whaddya think about this one?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
CCA-983-12 $55.39
Estimated Ship Date: Today
Application Warranty Show All
Brand: COMP Cams
Product Line: COMP Cams Valve Springs
Number of Springs Per Valve: Single
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.250 in.
Coil Bind Height (in): 1.150 in.
Damper Spring Included: No
Spring Rate (lbs/in): 410 lbs./in.
Inside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 0.836 in.
Inside Diameter of Inner Spring (in): 0.836 in.
Valve Spring Style: Ovate wire
Coated: No
Quantity: Sold as a set of 12.
Valve Springs, Single, 1.250 in. Outside Diameter, 410 lbs./in. Rate, 1.150 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 12
Recommended Camshaft Style Roller hydraulic
Installed Height (in) 1.700 in.
Seat Pressure at Installed Height (lbs) 105 lbs.
Open Height (in) 1.200 in.
Open Pressure (lbs) 310 lbs.
Estimated Ship Date: Today
Application Warranty Show All
Brand: COMP Cams
Product Line: COMP Cams Valve Springs
Number of Springs Per Valve: Single
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.250 in.
Coil Bind Height (in): 1.150 in.
Damper Spring Included: No
Spring Rate (lbs/in): 410 lbs./in.
Inside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 0.836 in.
Inside Diameter of Inner Spring (in): 0.836 in.
Valve Spring Style: Ovate wire
Coated: No
Quantity: Sold as a set of 12.
Valve Springs, Single, 1.250 in. Outside Diameter, 410 lbs./in. Rate, 1.150 in. Coil Bind Height, Set of 12
Recommended Camshaft Style Roller hydraulic
Installed Height (in) 1.700 in.
Seat Pressure at Installed Height (lbs) 105 lbs.
Open Height (in) 1.200 in.
Open Pressure (lbs) 310 lbs.
http://www.engineersedge.com/calcula...spring_pop.htm
I get a rate of 320 using 1.4", and 350 at 1.3".
The springs listed above will be 287 pounds at 1.35" with 1.8 rockers as opposed to 225ish with stock springs, valve open force. Not too bad.
Using 1.72 as the install height (from my most careful measurement) I have 114#. 102# at 1.75". I think we're in the ballpark here. As an acid test, I measured spring bind on our stockers at 1.25"/377 lbs. These springs above would actually be 307.5 at 1.25".
So the rate is higher as the valve sits closed, and is slightly higher as well at valve open, but is slightly lower at coil bind. That'* what we want if these numbers are good.
Check me on this. I need to order them!
03-03-2008, 10:42 PM
#7
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lancaster, South Carolina
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Will the guy at Colt Cams be able to tell me what springs will be needed for what he is grinding for? He really seems to know his stuff. When he gets the cam he said he will need to talk about specs and such before he starts work. I will make notes of everything you have here and relay that info to him. 
03-03-2008, 11:21 PM
#8
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
I wouldn't expect him to know unless he'* very knowledgable about the 3800 specifically. Unfortunately for you, when it comes to S1 (and previous) valvesprings, you're going to fall into the realm of John Wikoff and I.
And I'm running them.
And I'm running them.
03-05-2008, 04:01 PM
#10
Senior Member
Posts like a Supercharger
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been talking with Geoff at Colt Cams. He'* not too knowledgeable on the 3800 specifically, as he does cams for just about everything. He'* got some good LN3 profiles in the computer already, which is what you're probably getting. He'* got no Series 1 L27/L67 profiles right now, but we will soon be working on that.
Those Comp springs should be good. Can you post the specs for the cam you're looking at? I fresh set of stockers might be all you need.
Those Comp springs should be good. Can you post the specs for the cam you're looking at? I fresh set of stockers might be all you need.
