My performance plan... so far... - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 10-31-2002, 02:07 AM   #1
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Default My performance plan... so far...

Hey Guys,

Well I've come up with a plan for how I am going to deal with the new car. Any opinions are greatly appreciated.

K&N filter. Done.

I am starting with the cooler stat, my question is, why does everyone say 180? Why not go with a 160? Do they not make one for the bonnie? Ohh and anybody have the part number for the 180 stat?

Secondly the exta tranny cooler. Anybody have a part number for this?

I am also ordering the 2.25" pulley and belt from scperformance.com. Is this a safe diameter? I've read some conflicting opinions. The M62 blower is rated to 16000 max rpm so anybody know if this pulley is alright?

Custom 2 1/2" dual exhaust with cat-removal and an O2 sensor simulator.


So yeah I guess thats the plan! We'll see how she does at the track in the spring! Ohh and I am also getting it dynoed before the pulley!

Dave
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Old 10-31-2002, 02:52 AM   #2
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I don't have the part numbers for the t-stats but here is what i've heard on them. 180 is the best. A 160 could cause your engine to throw SES light if it doesn't reach operating temp. The 160 is generally used for dragging when they want as little heat as possible to help keep engine heat from getting to the air intake. Most people who use a 160 don't use the car as their daily driver.

And for the pulley. I also heard about the 16000 redline for the m62. I read somewhere (about a toyota truck that uses it) that a 2.4 was the ideal size. Any smaller and the high-end power would start to drop from heat and ineffecinencies in the blower. You may also run the risk on redlineing the m62 at engine redline as well, that would kill your blower over time. Besides, the m62 isonly reated foe 10psi of boost. To get more power I would do other mods in conjunction with a 2.4 like a CAI, exhaust, plugs, wires, maybe even a whole ignition setup. If you ask Willwren, he would suggest a water injection system as well.

Just my thought.
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Old 10-31-2002, 11:43 AM   #3
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SSEI95 hit it on the head... the 160 will throw a code for daily commute..the 02 sensor is a safe idea.. tranny coolers can be any universal ones from Crappy Tire.. the T-stat can be found on Crappy Tire when you go in and ask. There is also a thermostat housing gasket that I've had to pick up from pontiac parts departement ( but have also heard that Crappy Tire carries them.. but couldn't find the number for it when I was there... so I don't know how valid that is ). As for the mods of the pulley.. I don't know much about the M62.. but I know what before touching the pulley, you'll have to do some work to your engine to keep the KR down. The M90 for instance ( in my car ), can run a 3.4" ( stock is 3.8" ) pulley without any major mods.. but running 3.25" or smaller will require a custom headers and downpipe along with ignition system, CAI, and exhaust.. if you run too small of a pulley before doing any mods... you're going to run into a high KR value.. which in turn will hurt your performance and if not worse.. WILL hurt your engine too.
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Old 10-31-2002, 12:45 PM   #4
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This is a quote of myself in another thread, and also one on Bonneville Intensity that may help with boost questions:

"The M62 is rated for 10psi of boost. During hot weather, with a stock intake the most you'll see is 7.5 to 8psi. A smaller pulley, modded intake, colder weather, water injection...all these things add boost. For each pound of boost you gain, you gain about 10hp. Considering the pulley OR water injection raises the boost by 2psi, it'* a pretty good deal. Watch out for too high of a boost level though. Your intake gaskets and seals may not handle it. Your SC will also run hotter due to the extra work involved, or revving higher with a smaller pulley. The only boost mod that doesn't cause heat problems actually relieves it. Water injection. Raises air density and cools the intake by as much as 60. Expensive systems, though. To gain more boost effieciently and safely, change to the 180 thermostat, and add the tranny cooler. Preventive insurance.....THEN work on boost. Increase boost too much, without opening exhaust, you gain only a fraction of what you could. All these mods are inter-related."

You can read the whole thread here: http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=803
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Old 10-31-2002, 09:20 PM   #5
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Well that sucks! I loved running my truck with the 160' stat! Stayed nice and cool! But then again it was carburated.

With the pulley, my questions is why would they make only a 2.25 if it was not a safe diameter. I mean yeah the basics of the lower stat and tranny cooler I understand. BUT like most other factory supercharged engines, one would think it isn't running at peak performance. The factory loves to de-tune forced induction engines. SO like was mentioned with the M90, the safe diameter is 3.4. What is a safe diameter for the m60, I have a hard time believing that GM would use the lowest safe diameter. We all know that manufacturers never go to the edge of whats safe/effiecient. They stay a few steps back. So I guess my question remains what is a reasonable pulley to use?

And will the pulleyboys.com M62 pullies work with our blower?

Man I already miss the simplicity of a nice carburated SBC!


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Old 11-02-2002, 03:30 PM   #6
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Nobody?


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Old 11-02-2002, 03:37 PM   #7
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Sorry....I posted some SC specs and a novel on air density in Techinfo. Those might answer your questions. The pulley is designed to raise the SC rpms a specific amount. If you look at the max rpms for the m62 and m90, you'll see why they're different pulley diameters stock and aftermarket.
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Old 11-02-2002, 04:15 PM   #8
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Thanks alot Will ! Greatly appreciate that! I just went through both of your write ups. Definately interesting stuff, I mean I definately knew about the problems of less air pressure, and lower oxygen content because we are at 3500ft up here! At our altitude cars run waaay slower than they should! BUT the whole water injection/humidity is really an interesting concept! Especially the whole supercharged fighter planes part! Cool stuff!

I have noticed in another post that you were going to go with the 2.25 offered by scperformance.com. What are your opinions on this pulley, and why it seems to be the only one offered for us?

I guess I have just been indoctrinated by all the guys I have heard of that have GTPs or Lighnings or SC Thunderbirds or even the new 03 Cobra and have impressive gains with just the pulley and a filter!


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Old 11-02-2002, 04:50 PM   #9
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Those guys are either going to blow their intakes, smoke their blowers, or cook their engines if they don't take into account all the other inter-related systems and plan ahead. Pulleyboys lists pulley for the M62, but not specifically for our car. The belt type may be different, the nose drive can be a different shaft diameter (magnusson/eaton oems these things for specific applications), or any number of other reasons. Because they don't offer one, they don't have any experience with our application. scperformance knows the specs of the M62, and knows our pulley drive ratio. They used these calculations to determine which pulley diameter to market for us, just as they did for the M90. The M90'* lower rpms allowed a little bit more flexibility in sizes. Because ours is a higher-revving blower, it started out stock with a fairly small pulley. That doesn't lend itself to improvement very well, unless you find a way to drive it off the nosedrive shaft!

Why haven't I done it yet? I get much higher boost in the winter. It waits til spring. There are also a couple mods I want to finish first to make sure I'm safe to do it. I want to duct cooling air over the blower to relieve any increase in operating temps with the higher RPM'*, I want to flush my SC again, and finish my intake with ADTR parts, and add a tranny temp gauge. Maybe even an intake temp gauge. These will be mounted in an A pillar pod. On really hot days, I'll also be running my water injection to keep things cool. I have very low miles. I'm not willing to take risks with this car unless I know I've taken every safety precaution. The 180 stat and dual tranny coolers are probably sufficient, but I tend to take things a little far. Better for my peace of mind.
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Old 11-03-2002, 08:34 AM   #10
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Thanks for everything Will! Greatly appreciated!

Just a quick note, went in and got my 180 stat and gasket today. Guy at the counter was lik,e that is too low, its going to throw a code! Well its in and no problems yet!


Dave
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