LET THERE BE TIMING!!! - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-15-2004, 09:46 PM   #1
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Holt, MI & Lima, OH
Posts: 3,022
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
dbtk2 is on a distinguished road
Default LET THERE BE TIMING!!!

As some of you may already know, we had some work done to the GTP lately. It got a rebuilt tranny with heavy duty parts, a different torque converter, and shorter 3.29 gears. The 3.29 gears required some different PCM programming. So we sent the PCM into DHP to get the gears programmed and had them add a few other things at the same time. They also added adjustable timing into the timing tables, and they removed all of the EGR programming so we could take the whole EGR system off of it (in which we did). They also did a couple other things.

Anyways, today we got a chance to take the GTP out and mess with the adjustable timing a little. At WOT normally it gets 15 degrees of timing. We started out on a low setting (however, not the lowest setting) and went WOT and it saw 17.5 degrees timing with virtually no KR (saw a blip of .4 and 1.3 or something, probably false, nothing to worry about anyways). The car felt like it pulled a litte more. Then we turned it up to the next setting, and that was a little too much for 14.5psi and pump gas. It was seeing about 16 degrees of timing with 3 degrees of KR. (meaning it was trying to see ~19 degrees of timing, but was knocking so the PCM pulled the timing back to 16 degrees) Whats funny though, is that even though it was seeing 3 degrees of KR, it should've been making more power than it did without the adjustable timing because it had more timing even with the KR. (16 degrees instead of 15)

I was ecstatic! I couldn't belive that at the turn of a dial, I could add timing to the car!!! We left it on the 17.5* setting for the street. This is still 2.5 degrees more than it got before, meaning ~5whp. 5whp may not sound like much, but when you get to the point that the GTP is at, you are fighting for every horsepower you can find, espeically with the stock cam.

This should be a GREAT tool for the track. With 100 octane and the 2.6" pulley, the GTP never saw ANY KR last racing season. So I am thinking with the 2.6" pulley and 104 octane, in addition to a few other mods we have done since then, we should be able to add around 5 degrees of timing at the track, giving the GTP another 10 wheel horsepower.

Anyone on here planning on getting a DHP for your SSEi that wants to be semi-serious performance wise (low 14'* or faster), GET ADJUSTABLE TIMING ADDED TO IT! It is your best friend. If you already have a DHP it costs $100 to get it added to the code, and the happy **** (the thing that you adjust the timing with) costs $59. IMO, even if that is ALL you are getting done to your PCM, it is WELL worth the $159.

Shawn
dbtk2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2004, 12:14 AM   #2
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bloomington-Normal, IL 1997 SE
Posts: 3,734
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
macho_mike21 is on a distinguished road
Default

sounds pretty neat, you can just dial in the setting that you want? How precise is it, like how many degrees at a time can you change it?
macho_mike21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2004, 01:33 AM   #3
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Purgatory
Posts: 6,313
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
PontiacDad is on a distinguished road
Default

Sounds like a great mod for increased tunning and adjust ability.
Higher octane will allow a few more happy clicks and an extra kick at the track, its all good.
PontiacDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2004, 01:55 AM   #4
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sauk Centre, MN
Posts: 5,458
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
OLBlueEyesBonne is on a distinguished road
Default

I've decided to wait on a new ECM vendor. Hope to give them a call tomorrow or Wednesday to see how long before they're ready.
I would say who the vendor is, but from the way I heard it it sounds like it'* supposed to be under the table yet. They will probably blow DHP'* out of the water (they are still good though) performance wise and the cost is WAY down from DHP'*.

But mostly I'm glad to see the improvements you've got with that ECM and I personally can't wait to get a custom burn for my SSEi.

Martin
OLBlueEyesBonne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2004, 10:02 AM   #5
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Westerville, Ohio 2000 Black SSEi
Posts: 6,127
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rogue is on a distinguished road
Default

Let me know what you hear...i'm always looking for alternatives....
Rogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2004, 10:15 AM   #6
Senior Member
Certified Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 15,928
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BonneMeMN is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue
Let me know what you hear...i'm always looking for alternatives....
I think he'* waiting on what you are
BonneMeMN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2004, 04:31 PM   #7
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Holt, MI & Lima, OH
Posts: 3,022
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
dbtk2 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by macho_mike21
sounds pretty neat, you can just dial in the setting that you want? How precise is it, like how many degrees at a time can you change it?
Well, I'm not entirely used to how it works yet. It plugs into the IAT sensor, and changes the temperature to get the different settings. So the switch just reads the temperature it is tells the sensor to read. It appears that each setting is 2 degrees of timing, but I will have to do more testing to verify that.

Quote:
I've decided to wait on a new ECM vendor. Hope to give them a call tomorrow or Wednesday to see how long before they're ready.
I would say who the vendor is, but from the way I heard it it sounds like it'* supposed to be under the table yet. They will probably blow DHP'* out of the water (they are still good though) performance wise and the cost is WAY down from DHP'*.
I don't know what they would do that would make their PCM "blow DHP'* out of the water" since DHP will program the PCM however you want for a small additional fee. (I think it is $50 if you are buying a new DHP, and $100 to add changes to a DHP you already have, but I'm not 100% sure) This other company may be cheaper, but I can't see them making a PCM that is much better. The normal DHP is just about all they can really do to the PCM so that it will work well on every car, if you try to get more performance out of it, you are going to start making it require more mods, and be more un-reliable. And the standard DHP is definately capable of making lots of power. My dad had a regular DHP when he ran his 12.408 run. I'm not saying this other PCM is bad, it probably is quite good, and is probably a good deal for the money, but I just can't see this PCM "blowing DHP'* out of the water."

Also, I haven't heard anything about this new PCM. What are the differences supposed to be??? What are they looking to sell it for.

Shawn
dbtk2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2004, 10:20 PM   #8
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Westerville, Ohio 2000 Black SSEi
Posts: 6,127
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rogue is on a distinguished road
Default

DHP got/developed a hacked PCM code for either the 98 or 99 GP (cant remember which) and has moved that code across the 98 to 02 models. This is why it took so long to get the 03 (and why 97 was so hard), because they are differnt PCMs. I have heard stories of them using the wrong VIN, and know for a fact their PCM blew up 2 of Tim King'* motors by setting the timing to like 30 or something at WOT and causing massive KR. I don't know them, have never talked to them, but from all the stories I've heard I just don't trust them. It would probably be different if you were there with them and having them tune the car and get a specific pcm burned for your car but to be honest I would feel uncomfortable just ordering a custom pcm from them.

Granted what I'm going on is hearsay but I would rather error on the side of caution then try to explain to the dealership why they should replace my engine. On top of all this add the complexity of the Bonneville PCM (by far more complicated then the GP) and you inject further room for error.
Rogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2004, 11:41 PM   #9
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bloomington-Normal, IL 1997 SE
Posts: 3,734
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
macho_mike21 is on a distinguished road
Default

nobody wants the blue screen of death from their PCM (figurativly speaking). I would be a little worried too.
macho_mike21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 01:07 AM   #10
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,712
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
TaylorD is on a distinguished road
Default

I feel like Rouge, I'm worried about going to get a custom pcm. I've talked with Charles and he is a member to the Illinois grand prix club and comes highly recomended. He just finished the 04 gtp code couple of weeks ago.

For me, he said they have a progarm writen allready for +00 ssei but he didn't write it. He'd like me to bring the car to his house so he can copy the code and disect it, he'* pretty sure he can get ride of Tourque management, assuming its close to the 04 gp code. Also found a way to display extra engine parameters in the DIC like digital boost readout, and tranny temp. Told me it will just take him at least 10hrs of double checking and adjusting to his liking off the standard SSEi DHP.

I'm confident that he'll do a good job, can't think of any members having problems with him or his code. Memebers goto his house all the time for little extra tweeks here and there and don't every hear anything but praise.

Back to me, he then wants to strap it on a dyno and check it out, run some logs first too. Not sure on the final cost for me, but if I get a PCM this is the way I'd like it, not just order it off the net. I also plan on telling him to not try to get every last HP out of it, be somewhat conservative, don't want to blow it up or anything like that.

Charles has 2 GP'* ones a GTP running low 13'*, but his play toy is a GT with CSC kit almost into the 12'*. I say he has to be pretty good with code. My engine is depending on him.
TaylorD is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Let it Snow, Let it Snow, Let it Snow GXP Venom Lounge 9 10-22-2008 11:55 AM
Is There a Recomendation to Change Timing Chain? malatu 2000-2005 6 12-07-2007 01:35 PM
let it snow let it snow let it snow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 88bonnsse Lounge 8 12-05-2007 09:51 PM
Let there be....... willwren Lounge 3 02-26-2006 07:04 PM
Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.. BonneAlien Your Ride: GM Pictures & Videos 37 12-10-2005 01:02 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:30 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.