"Less isolated" end links? - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-09-2007, 12:24 AM   #1
Senior Member
Posts like a Camaro
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Jenison, MI (Near Grand Rapids)
Posts: 1,070
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
theJMFC is on a distinguished road
Default "Less isolated" end links?

I was zoned out the other day, and got to thinking about sway bar end links, how they work on our cars, and the design used on some other cars.

On our setups, rubber/poly bushings have to compress or expand before any real force is transmitted to the bar. It'* better with nice Energy Suspension links, but there'* still some isolation there, am I right? The body rolls in a corner slightly before the bar begins to do it'* thing.

I've noticed on some Fords and others, that they use more of a ball/socket design, with no isolation at all. As soon as suspension moves, the sway bar is moving with it. Given the space we have, and the design of our front ends, I don't think this would work for us...

But what if we were to take a set of Energy Suspension links (perhaps a size longer...), and trim like 1/4" off of the flat side of the poly bushings? In other words, make for less compressible material, more steel. Wouldn't that tighten up the handling even more than "regular" performance links?

I'm supposing that this has been thought of before, but I've never heard of it being tried or discussed even. I'm curious what everyone else thinks of this possibility?
theJMFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2007, 01:06 AM   #2
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default

The body roll you feel is in the rear, and has more to do with the flex of the bar than the endlinks.

Install full-coil spring rubbers like NASCAR uses to solve the problem. The endlink'* flex was certainly calculated into the springrate of the sway bar.
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2007, 01:59 AM   #3
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dimondale, MI
Posts: 549
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
F14CRAZY is on a distinguished road
Default

I hate to be slightly off topic, but do poly swar bar bushings make that much of a difference versus doing just energy suspension end links?
F14CRAZY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2007, 02:05 AM   #4
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default

crazy.......Energy Suspension endlinks ARE Polyurethane.
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2007, 03:01 AM   #5
Senior Member
Posts like a Camaro
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Jenison, MI (Near Grand Rapids)
Posts: 1,070
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
theJMFC is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
The body roll you feel is in the rear, and has more to do with the flex of the bar than the endlinks.

Install full-coil spring rubbers like NASCAR uses to solve the problem. The endlink'* flex was certainly calculated into the springrate of the sway bar.
Good point, on the endlink'* "give" being factored in by GM. That said, it doesn't seem that everyone here is satisfied with their stock GM engineering. I was just thinking that if one already has FE2/F41 sways, and wants even less roll, that perhaps removing the "squish factor" in the endlinks might assist in that.

And just an honest question: Why do you say that the felt body roll is in the rear? Maybe it'* just too late over here, but my mind is telling me that the car is a relatively solid unit, and that the rear can't roll without the front doing the same. Perhaps the rear isn't resisting the roll as strongly, but the body moves as one unit, no?
theJMFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2007, 03:16 AM   #6
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default

Front and rear will roll and sway at different rates. All cars are like this. Most cars are designed to roll a bit more in the rear. My personal belief is that this is intended to put the driver in a state other than 'at ease' to keep the driver from over-correcting. Depending on the setup and balance between front and rear, you either get neutral balance, understeer, or oversteer. My car has finally achieved neutral balance.

Throughout all my suspension modifications, the rear was always lacking in stifness and resistance to roll, even after the struts and endlinks. And this is with the thickest set of FE2 springs ever measured on this Forum.

If you want to get a feel for it, do what I did for boosty last year. I drove his car through a series of * curves under accelleration and braking while he sat shotgun with his eyes closed. You can 'feel' what the car is doing much better that way.
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2007, 03:43 AM   #7
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dimondale, MI
Posts: 549
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
F14CRAZY is on a distinguished road
Default

wren: I respectfully acknowledge you pointing that out, but I was going with "poly swar bar bushings" and "energy suspension end links" to show I was talking about two different items
F14CRAZY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2007, 04:30 AM   #8
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
2000SilverBullet is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
hate to be slightly off topic, but do poly swar bar bushings make that much of a difference versus doing just energy suspension end links?
No with the poly sway bar bushings you will not get as big a benefit or should I say noticeable feel versus doing the end links.
Much more stress (and compressible poly) at the end links than at the main bar bracket bushings.
2000SilverBullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2007, 11:05 AM   #9
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default

When I installed the Poly centerlink bushings, I barely noticed a difference. Very subtle. I would assume new OEM bushings would have done the same. I was comparing old worn out centerlinks to new poly.

F14, you were misunderstood in your question because the topic was ENDLINKS.

Here'* the centerlinks:
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...highlight=sway
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2007, 11:47 AM   #10
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: In your garage, swipin' da lug nutz
Posts: 3,067
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
sandrock is on a distinguished road
Default

In addition to the above, jrs3800 installed them on his 95, and have now formed significant stress cracks.

The red centerlink bushings have different overal measurements when compared to a stock rubber bushing. Don and myself noted several differences between the two, most notably the "nub" that willwren ground down on his install, but Don left intact on his.

Bill, when you get a chance, can you please post how your centerlink bushings are holding up? I'm wondering about that little nub modification and if it correlates to stress cracks.
sandrock is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Where is "techino" and "Bonnevilleclub" links? tornadostu General GM Chat 2 01-08-2009 04:50 PM
Series 1 owners, check your sway bar end links billha 1992-1999 22 12-05-2005 03:27 PM
My rear ES end links are on! Glasuan Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning 2 02-24-2005 02:12 AM
Installed ES front end links!!! Glasuan Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning 8 02-19-2005 07:18 PM
Found it was end links page 11 artk 1992-1999 0 08-12-2004 06:49 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:35 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.