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Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 12-20-2003, 09:27 PM   #31
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how much of a gain would i get with this because it looks extremely affordable and simple to do
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Old 12-24-2003, 09:40 PM   #32
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I have to say (since this got resurrected again) that this is perhaps the dumbest idea for a Series 1 I've ever seen.

Start here:

http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...pic.php?t=6566

Anyone who would intentionally do this to their car is thinking about rebuilding, anyway, I suppose......or you better be. I would sooner go out and grind slots in my rotors with a dremel tool than do this. At least rotors are cheaper than a valve job.

Those that are doing this on Series 2'* could learn from what the 92'* learned. In time, it will get you. If you don't care, then go for it. Series 1 will get burned (literally and figuratively) sooner.

I would be remiss in my responsibilities to this Forum, and my own consience would suffer if I didn't make these comments.
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Old 12-24-2003, 10:46 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbtk2
Quote:
Um I dont get it...
Why do people with EGRs block them, and people with out EGR'* put them on?
EGR stands for Exhaust Gas Recirculation. So what do you think it does? It recirculates exhaust through the engine. Is exhaust clean...no. The exhaust makes the blower, intake manifold, etc... in the engine dirty. So if you block it off none of that will be dirty anymore. We removed it on the GTP to keep the intercooler clean because according to Zooomer with the EGR connected the Intercooler core needs to be cleaned every 10,000 miles, without the EGR connected it only needs to be cleaned every 50-100,000 miles. A HUGE difference. So basically you take it off to keep the engine clean.

Quote:
ZZP says it messes with your gas mileage...anyone have an idea why?
Because what does you exhaust have left in it...a little bit of fuel. When the exhaust is recirculated the engine can use the little amount of fuel it didn't use before over again, so you would get better gas mileage, not much better but a little bit. We didn't notice a loss in gas mileage at all in the GTP for some reason, if anything we noticed a gain. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
I have to say (since this got resurrected again) that this is perhaps the dumbest idea for a Series 1 I've ever seen.

Start here:

http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...pic.php?t=6566

Anyone who would intentionally do this to their car is thinking about rebuilding, anyway, I suppose......or you better be. I would sooner go out and grind slots in my rotors with a dremel tool than do this. At least rotors are cheaper than a valve job.

Those that are doing this on Series 2'* could learn from what the 92'* learned. In time, it will get you. If you don't care, then go for it. Series 1 will get burned (literally and figuratively) sooner.

I would be remiss in my responsibilities to this Forum, and my own consience would suffer if I didn't make these comments.
Okay people lets get down to base facts here on this! I've been asked for my imput as an EGRLess Bonneville owner & Gm Partsman & ex-mechanic.

The EGR Valve is VERY IMPORTANT! Yes dbtk2 it does stand for "Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve". IT is there for "Emisions" too. On the Series 1 EGRless engine though, the lack of the EGR Valve causes pre-maturing burning of the Exhast Valves, as well as the cracking of Exhaust Manifolds due to the higher heat produced from the EGRless 3800 from lack of proper venting of said "heat". GM realized their mistake in 1992 & made sure the EGR Valve was installed once again on the 1993 3800 to prevent this problem. BTW! The ONLY reason GM even removed it in the first place was the 1992 3800 passed emissions w/o the EGR Valve.

Now I'm not going to agrue here with you dbtk2 or go head-to-head with Zooomer either. I will however state my own personal opinions here & let you all decide for yourselves on what to do with them though.

I see the EGR Valve as a two-fold device here. One function is as Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve to help output emissions of the exhaust gasses so that they are more evenly/throughly burned to prevent hydro-carbons from entering the atmosphere. The Second function of the EGR Valve is to vent the excess "Heat" generated by the exhaust gasses. It'* this very "Heat" that burns the valves & cracks the manifolds. Now yes, the 3800 likes to run "hot" shall we say, as that is what is was designed to do for best optium performance according to GM.

We as Bonneville Owners & Performance Modification "Freaks" always try to improve on the "stock" 3800 to get more power & HP! I believe blocking off the EGR Valve port for life is a bad thing in the end. Now, with that said, a short term "block off" for racing, etc MAY help with track times though. As for every day driving I can't see blocking off the EGR Valve as "helping" the performance & longevity of the 3800 engine though. I personally have had an EGRless 3800 & have personally seen what this engine can do to an Exhaust Valve & Exhaust Manifold, as I've changed them myself already on my own 92 SE. Because of this I started this thread: http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...pic.php?t=6566
To help others with the 92 EGRless 3800 from having to do what I did.

Well that'* my Take it, modify it, or just leave it!
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Old 12-24-2003, 11:04 PM   #34
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Oh ya....ya...ya...and someone once told me years ago that removing the catalytic converter will burn your valves too.... :P

....it'* been a tough year and sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to feed ones addictions to continuous performance improvement.
My headers have evaporated into an RESP contribution and the XBox funds went into a pair of glasses...sight being prioritized a little higher than gaming.

So it'* off to the shop next week to extract the nasty catalytic converter. It will be the cheapest 10 hp gain yet. I will leave in the resonator and keep the stock mufflers because I don't believe it to rob a significant amount of power, the wife still likes mellow sounds.....and I'm thrifty (aka cheap).
If anyone tells me now that this will harm my engine in any way.....
You will suck my exhaust fumes.
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Old 12-24-2003, 11:07 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000SilverBullet
Oh ya....ya...ya...and someone once told me years ago that removing the catalytic converter will burn your valves too.... :P

....it'* been a tough year and sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to feed ones addictions to continuous performance improvement.
My headers have evaporated into an RESP contribution and the XBox funds went into a pair of glasses...sight being prioritized a little higher than gaming.

So it'* off to the shop next week to extract the nasty catalytic converter. It will be the cheapest 10 hp gain yet. I will leave in the resonator and keep the stock mufflers because I don't believe it to rob a significant amount of power, the wife still likes mellow sounds.....and I'm thrifty (aka cheap).
If anyone tells me now that this will harm my engine in any way.....
You will suck my exhaust fumes.
My CAT has been removed as it was a Performance Enhancement! I'm not talking about the CAT here though. The CAT is there strickly for EMISSIONS ONLY!
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Old 12-25-2003, 03:24 AM   #36
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You got a dummy O2 yet?
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Old 12-25-2003, 06:37 AM   #37
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Quote:
You got a dummy O2 yet?
Yes.
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Old 12-25-2003, 04:05 PM   #38
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How do those things work? Isn't the PCM looking for a toggle, rather than a constant reading? I've never looked into them.
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Old 12-25-2003, 08:51 PM   #39
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I don't know how it works.
It is simply an epoxy sealed plug that fits into the O2 connector and fools the PCM by giving the appropriate signal...resistance?...to indicate a functioning CAT. It'* probably as simple as the IAT sensor fool resistor. If we knew, we probably wouldn't pay $35. for one.

Do you have yearly emissions testing in Albany, Will ?
...Sure I'm environmentally conscience but my vehicle will always be in better tune than the average and it bugs me to see the bigger trucks getting away with waaaay more exhaust emissions than any car........and besides, it'* at least 10 almost free horsepower.
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Old 01-01-2004, 11:29 PM   #40
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ONE car with the cat removed wont make that much of a difference in the enviroment, though it will smell for those traveling behind you.
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