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Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning Talk about modifications, or anything else associated with performance enhancements. Have a new idea for performance/reliability? Post it here. No idea is stupid! (please use Detailing and Appearance for cosmetic ideas)

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Old 11-29-2010, 10:49 PM   #11
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The double rollers can sometimes cause false knock. False knocks causes your PCM to try and compensate and then your giddy up, giddy goes.
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Old 11-30-2010, 07:56 AM   #12
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The double rollers can sometimes cause false knock. False knocks causes your PCM to try and compensate and then your giddy up, giddy goes.
How Kev? I've never heard of this and am intrigued?
A double roller needs to be machined to correct the Austrailian chamfer vs US chamfer on the crank gear and the cam gear needs to be matched up as well. That way the chain has no clearnace issues to the oil pump cover. At first folks figured the cover clearance issue was a simple clearance problem from a larger gear set, in reality it was the chain not being aligned on the gears properly.

Dropping the subframe, it'* possible to do this in around a day. Do a couple of oil changes at 3-5 minutes of running and then 10-20 minutes of running. It'* good practice as some water, dirt and assembly lube will be in the oil.

A fourth clutch hub won't really help breathe new life into the trans. It will help ensure you don't lose 4th gear though. To help that in the meantime, don't go WOT when you are in 4th. Pull back down to 3rd manually and then go WOT. That way the added stress before the trans would normally downshift isn't loaded onto the 4th shaft.
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:15 AM   #13
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There are a couple people running new stock single chains with heavy springs and hot cams. The chains are holding up fine.
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:13 AM   #14
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I ran a stock chain with 90lb springs and a mild cam for around 80k. The first 15k I had stock retainers (do not do this) so I had about 120ish lb seat pressure for that long.
The tensioner had the typical failed bottom portion where it cracks and breaks off but it definitely still had some life left in it.
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:51 AM   #15
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Justin....please quantify "heavy springs".

I'm not suggesting anyone try this with their motor.... I ran and it'* still together this way. 130# springs with a single JP chain...has ~50K on it. (Had my spring seat clearance machined to the correct 1.800" though.)

One thing to keep in mind is our stock heads have ~1.72XX" for a spring install height. Adding in modded retainers gives you ~0.060" to make the spring install height ~1.78XX". The LS platform springs that we use as replacements in our engines expect an install height of 1.800". Sure everyone installs and doesn't worry about the ~0.02X", lets be honest with ourselves though... how much preload does that add? The machinist I used said he'* seen spring preload about 20ft lbs in that space.

Just a little trivia to keep in the ole mind.
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBoost37 View Post
How Kev? I've never heard of this and am intrigued?
A double roller needs to be machined to correct the Austrailian chamfer vs US chamfer on the crank gear and the cam gear needs to be matched up as well. That way the chain has no clearnace issues to the oil pump cover. At first folks figured the cover clearance issue was a simple clearance problem from a larger gear set, in reality it was the chain not being aligned on the gears properly.

Dropping the subframe, it'* possible to do this in around a day. Do a couple of oil changes at 3-5 minutes of running and then 10-20 minutes of running. It'* good practice as some water, dirt and assembly lube will be in the oil.

A fourth clutch hub won't really help breathe new life into the trans. It will help ensure you don't lose 4th gear though. To help that in the meantime, don't go WOT when you are in 4th. Pull back down to 3rd manually and then go WOT. That way the added stress before the trans would normally downshift isn't loaded onto the 4th shaft.
Yeah that seems to be an issue with the chamfer. It was just a suggestion, and i can attest to using mine. I've had my double roller on 3 different blocks over the course of 4 years. I had first put it on my l67 block when this whole double roller thing was new, and nobody had broken one yet. I was alarmed when they issue was caused by rubbing the chain on the cover, but when i swapped in my first l26, i noticed no wear on my cover at all. I decided double gasketing my front cover was sufficient enough to keep the chain happy and away from everything. I've put close to 20k miles on my car from when it was first cammed with an xp, starting with the failure 105 springs, in which i changed out due to the sping itself becoming weak (which other people have tested to be something that actually happens) I had then purchased 130 comp springs, to which they announced a failure with those also (nobody likes a broken spring and a dropped valve). So i sent the 130'* into comp for their revised 125 springs that look much better in comparison. I noticed my power band curve stayed the same, but the rpm curve was in a higher range (about 500 rpms)

I have about 50 track passes over the given years with my chain and i dont give a second though about its reliability.

You can do what you wish, i just like the insurance of not worrying about a tensioner being eaten up.
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Old 12-01-2010, 11:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBoost37 View Post
Justin....please quantify "heavy springs".

I'm not suggesting anyone try this with their motor.... I ran and it'* still together this way. 130# springs with a single JP chain...has ~50K on it. (Had my spring seat clearance machined to the correct 1.800" though.)

One thing to keep in mind is our stock heads have ~1.72XX" for a spring install height. Adding in modded retainers gives you ~0.060" to make the spring install height ~1.78XX". The LS platform springs that we use as replacements in our engines expect an install height of 1.800". Sure everyone installs and doesn't worry about the ~0.02X", lets be honest with ourselves though... how much preload does that add? The machinist I used said he'* seen spring preload about 20ft lbs in that space.

Just a little trivia to keep in the ole mind.

I hope this link works. It'* basically the 3800 spring bible. http://www.prjperformance.com/Files/...0to%20Lift.htm
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Old 12-03-2010, 07:16 PM   #18
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I appreciate all your help decided to go another route....

going to get rockers and a tune instead because I also need to beef up the suspension and fix some minor problems... rather fix everything instead of getting a cam and have my suspension fall apart.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:27 PM   #19
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Get a used set of rockers and you'll be able to sell them for nearly as much when/if you ever decide to cam.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:59 PM   #20
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what kind of rockers? what other supporting mods should i get with the rockers?
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