Boost and a L27?
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 342
Likes: 1
Theres a Reatta owner with the LN3-C that went to turbo about two years ago now. He has a detonation problem. He wants to keep the "screen" with on board diagonstics that the Reattas had so he doesnt want to change his ECM. He cant find anyone to make a proper Memcal or Eprom for the turbo. The engine will be fine if you get proper A/F ratio and dont want to be MR Speedracer. Tranny will cry mercy first. Normal boost will be fine but just like anything else if you want to abuse it your going to pay.
One guy cobbed up a LN3-C Toronado and fried it very swiftly. He did nothing for A/F ratio and just beat it till it broke. I think that took less than 2 weeks. I suspect he melted his pistons.
I think the confusion about the Forged crank may come form that idea that now some are claiming the LG3-3 had forged crank and rods. One Fiero transplant guy has put FWD LG3-3 with turbo, aluminum heads and is going for 10'*. I think he might be ligit and know what hes doing he has a 71 Datsun w/turbo Buick doing 10'* now.
Link
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/056615.html
One guy cobbed up a LN3-C Toronado and fried it very swiftly. He did nothing for A/F ratio and just beat it till it broke. I think that took less than 2 weeks. I suspect he melted his pistons.
I think the confusion about the Forged crank may come form that idea that now some are claiming the LG3-3 had forged crank and rods. One Fiero transplant guy has put FWD LG3-3 with turbo, aluminum heads and is going for 10'*. I think he might be ligit and know what hes doing he has a 71 Datsun w/turbo Buick doing 10'* now.
Link
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/056615.html
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11
Likes: 13
So now everyone can see how this isn't just a 'boost it' thing. You REALLY need to know what you're doing, have alot of patience for diagnostics/tuning, and alot of money and time to spend on it, and may STILL......actually WILL still have problems sooner than if you hadn't messed with it.
What pisses me off is when people say "it'* possible" without any knowledge or experience to back it up. I'm not intentionally pointing fingers here, but this needs to be stated. All it takes is ONE person to take that advice, go out and do it, then melt a piston. This needs to be approached CAREFULLY and methodically. To the best of our knowledge, NOBODY has done this with an L27, and Oldsman doesn't even have an L27 to begin with.
In our experience, only Allmachtige has pushed the L27, and he did it with Nitrous. A VERY mild shot, and rarely.
What it boils down to is this:
If you haven't done it, don't run around telling everyone it can be done. If you HAVE done it, test it, and if it seems to be holding up, let us know how it works so others can benefit from the experience.
In the MEANTIME......nobody on this forum has any right to say that it'* possible, because frankly, NOBODY KNOWS THAT. Sure you can put a turbo on ANYTHING. Hell, I can turbo the phone on my desk. Will it work? Maybe.
For how long?
THAT, my friends, is the question of the day.
What pisses me off is when people say "it'* possible" without any knowledge or experience to back it up. I'm not intentionally pointing fingers here, but this needs to be stated. All it takes is ONE person to take that advice, go out and do it, then melt a piston. This needs to be approached CAREFULLY and methodically. To the best of our knowledge, NOBODY has done this with an L27, and Oldsman doesn't even have an L27 to begin with.
In our experience, only Allmachtige has pushed the L27, and he did it with Nitrous. A VERY mild shot, and rarely.
What it boils down to is this:
If you haven't done it, don't run around telling everyone it can be done. If you HAVE done it, test it, and if it seems to be holding up, let us know how it works so others can benefit from the experience.
In the MEANTIME......nobody on this forum has any right to say that it'* possible, because frankly, NOBODY KNOWS THAT. Sure you can put a turbo on ANYTHING. Hell, I can turbo the phone on my desk. Will it work? Maybe.
For how long?
THAT, my friends, is the question of the day.
Senior Member
Certified Car Nut
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 19,756
Likes: 1
[quote="willwren"] Sure you can put a turbo on ANYTHING. H***, I can turbo the phone on my desk. Will it work? Maybe.
[quote]
you never cease to amaze me, hahahhahahaha that is a great quote
sorry
[quote]
you never cease to amaze me, hahahhahahaha that is a great quote
sorry
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,910
Likes: 3
Were here to give advice, not tell people what to do. Of course we have never done that stuff or tested it out. We just use our prior knowledge to guide people in a certain direction. It'* up to the discretion of the person on the listening end to decide what is the right thing to do. We shouldn't have to prove everything. That'* impossible.
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True Car Nut
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,508
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From: Philly
Willwren, i totally understand what your saying but IN THIS CASE, i don't think that a person would just go out and turbo thier car by what someone said on this forum. That takes alot of time/research/money/know-how/ect.
I'd have to agree that people shouldn't be saying things they don't know for sure. I see that alot.
I think if people changed thier wording around a little it wouldn't be as bad. For instance, ' I think that it could be possible because of x, y, z. But i'm not so sure because of j,k,f.'
ya know?
I'd have to agree that people shouldn't be saying things they don't know for sure. I see that alot.
I think if people changed thier wording around a little it wouldn't be as bad. For instance, ' I think that it could be possible because of x, y, z. But i'm not so sure because of j,k,f.'
ya know?
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,095
Likes: 0
From: Georgia
I'm lost....
[/quote]
Equals:
????
Maybe my statement that you put in bold confused you? What I meant by it is that it would be cheaper to simply manufacture the same crank for both engines. If you have two engines of the same size, compression, and not a wildly different HP rating it would be "logical" to just keep the same crank for both of them.
I even took the extra step and searched that entire thread. The word "forged" is never even mentioned.
Originally Posted by Dr. Jay
I was just talking to Will (Bill 
) and decided to look up cranks. GM parts direct lists the crank as PN: 24501594 for All application models. Unless there'* some database error that means naturally aspriated and supercharged is the same...which logically would be the case anyway.
) and decided to look up cranks. GM parts direct lists the crank as PN: 24501594 for All application models. Unless there'* some database error that means naturally aspriated and supercharged is the same...which logically would be the case anyway.Equals:
Originally Posted by BonneMeMN
forged crank
shot peened rods. (l67 has forged rods & pistons afawk).
shot peened rods. (l67 has forged rods & pistons afawk).
Maybe my statement that you put in bold confused you? What I meant by it is that it would be cheaper to simply manufacture the same crank for both engines. If you have two engines of the same size, compression, and not a wildly different HP rating it would be "logical" to just keep the same crank for both of them.
I even took the extra step and searched that entire thread. The word "forged" is never even mentioned.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,912
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From: New York City
So now everyone can see how this isn't just a 'boost it' thing. You REALLY need to know what you're doing, have alot of patience for diagnostics/tuning, and alot of money and time to spend on it, and may STILL......actually WILL still have problems sooner than if you hadn't messed with it.
What pisses me off is when people say "it'* possible" without any knowledge or experience to back it up. I'm not intentionally pointing fingers here, but this needs to be stated. All it takes is ONE person to take that advice, go out and do it, then melt a piston. This needs to be approached CAREFULLY and methodically. To the best of our knowledge, NOBODY has done this with an L27, and Oldsman doesn't even have an L27 to begin with.
In our experience, only Allmachtige has pushed the L27, and he did it with Nitrous. A VERY mild shot, and rarely.
What it boils down to is this:
If you haven't done it, don't run around telling everyone it can be done. If you HAVE done it, test it, and if it seems to be holding up, let us know how it works so others can benefit from the experience.
In the MEANTIME......nobody on this forum has any right to say that it'* possible, because frankly, NOBODY KNOWS THAT. Sure you can put a turbo on ANYTHING. H***, I can turbo the phone on my desk. Will it work? Maybe.
For how long?
THAT, my friends, is the question of the day.
What pisses me off is when people say "it'* possible" without any knowledge or experience to back it up. I'm not intentionally pointing fingers here, but this needs to be stated. All it takes is ONE person to take that advice, go out and do it, then melt a piston. This needs to be approached CAREFULLY and methodically. To the best of our knowledge, NOBODY has done this with an L27, and Oldsman doesn't even have an L27 to begin with.
In our experience, only Allmachtige has pushed the L27, and he did it with Nitrous. A VERY mild shot, and rarely.
What it boils down to is this:
If you haven't done it, don't run around telling everyone it can be done. If you HAVE done it, test it, and if it seems to be holding up, let us know how it works so others can benefit from the experience.
In the MEANTIME......nobody on this forum has any right to say that it'* possible, because frankly, NOBODY KNOWS THAT. Sure you can put a turbo on ANYTHING. H***, I can turbo the phone on my desk. Will it work? Maybe.
For how long?
THAT, my friends, is the question of the day.
Ok maybe I left out two details before I made this post.
1. I am the proud owner of a 1994 bonneville Se (which has a L27 but isn't registered yet ) I didn't change my avatar because I dont have pictures of the car yet since its been snowing on and off in Ne wYork for a week now
2. I understand that it isnt just like changing a filter on the car and that this is going to require a lot of time, effort and money.
Also I know that no one has done this before that is why I asked. I didn't mean to upset anyone about this issue, and it seems it has happend before. As for people telling me I can do it and have not done it themselves, that is people giving me support to try and not telling me its impossible but improbable. This is not the first time I asked this question, my first days on bonneville club I asked this and we agreed that it was to expensive with my first car (1996 oldsmobile lss) but certain things have happend that I have some money in my pocket (willwren remeber the thunderchicken I bought a couple of months ago I listened to your advice.
I sold the car and got double what I payed for it and I got a bonneville not a SSEi but it works) so I decided that I would consider a turbo for my car.
So I asked and I got a great response from you guys, then I'm at work I check the forums and I realize that I never included the fact that I had a bonneville.
Ok again Im sorry for an inconvince I caused. Oh and Im going to update my avatar now so now I can offically say I am a bonnevilleclub member because I finally own a bonneville. 
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11
Likes: 13
Thanks for updating your sig 
This isn't your fault. This is an old, hotly-contested topic. There are some strong opinions, but keep in mind that until hard facts are fully researched, nobody here is in a position to present facts on the case.
But we're actively working on it. Many conversations, primarily amongst DrJay, jr's3800, and I have taken place, and more continues as we speak.
This isn't your fault. This is an old, hotly-contested topic. There are some strong opinions, but keep in mind that until hard facts are fully researched, nobody here is in a position to present facts on the case.
But we're actively working on it. Many conversations, primarily amongst DrJay, jr's3800, and I have taken place, and more continues as we speak.
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Certified GM nut
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,095
Likes: 0
From: Georgia
Oh no don't worry about it man, the "can you supercharge a naturally aspirated" always fires people up.
For what its worth here'* my take on the situation:
Personally I don't believe the pistons are forged, neither is the crank. I've got a ton of reasons for why I think that, but no sense in rambling about it. I'm 98/2 about the rods not being forged, mostly because people seem so firm in believing it. No matter the fact that the higher horsepower Series II does not have forged rods and only hypereutectic pistons with a crank thats a nodular iron unit.
Between the SI NA and SC engines everything I can gather suggests they're nearly the same. As Will stated, I've spent a LOT of time researching this..but I don't know it all. I do know the SC version has floating pins while the NA is press fit. Not by any means a requirement for adding a supercharger though.
That being said, this isn't exactly a huge supercharger. Heck the difference between naturally aspirated and supercharged (at its lowest) is 35hp. The torque will be quite higher, but if you've ever considered porting your heads, raising the compression, and getting custom headers done, you might as well consider the supercharger.
You can look anywhere and see a turbo on a semi-stock civic or a whole host of other engines that are far less accepting of the modification. Our naturally aspirated was even given an equal compression ratio, which is almost unheard of.
Of course with this comes the 'no duh' aspect of other parts holding up, namely the transmission. Through all my searching I've only been able to find one place outside of BC that says anything of the HD transmission and it states simply, "Same as 4T60-E except with a few heavy duty parts (mainly final drive gearset) for supercharged 3.8l V-6 application." Another webpage states the 4T60-E as being able to transfer a maximum of 280# of engine torque. Which, believe it or not, is only FIVE # lower than the 65-E. BOTH of these statements were made by, "Steve Ochs - Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain -Parma Plant - Transmission Division (4T60/65-E)"...So if you feel the need to debate it, debate it with him.
In anycase, I think if you were to add a supercharger to a car in excellent operating condition that everything will hold up properly. I don't think even if you got 240hp and 290# of torque that it would be beyond the scope of cast pistons, cast rods, and a cast crank.
For what its worth here'* my take on the situation:
Personally I don't believe the pistons are forged, neither is the crank. I've got a ton of reasons for why I think that, but no sense in rambling about it. I'm 98/2 about the rods not being forged, mostly because people seem so firm in believing it. No matter the fact that the higher horsepower Series II does not have forged rods and only hypereutectic pistons with a crank thats a nodular iron unit.
Between the SI NA and SC engines everything I can gather suggests they're nearly the same. As Will stated, I've spent a LOT of time researching this..but I don't know it all. I do know the SC version has floating pins while the NA is press fit. Not by any means a requirement for adding a supercharger though.
That being said, this isn't exactly a huge supercharger. Heck the difference between naturally aspirated and supercharged (at its lowest) is 35hp. The torque will be quite higher, but if you've ever considered porting your heads, raising the compression, and getting custom headers done, you might as well consider the supercharger.
You can look anywhere and see a turbo on a semi-stock civic or a whole host of other engines that are far less accepting of the modification. Our naturally aspirated was even given an equal compression ratio, which is almost unheard of.
Of course with this comes the 'no duh' aspect of other parts holding up, namely the transmission. Through all my searching I've only been able to find one place outside of BC that says anything of the HD transmission and it states simply, "Same as 4T60-E except with a few heavy duty parts (mainly final drive gearset) for supercharged 3.8l V-6 application." Another webpage states the 4T60-E as being able to transfer a maximum of 280# of engine torque. Which, believe it or not, is only FIVE # lower than the 65-E. BOTH of these statements were made by, "Steve Ochs - Mfg. Engineer - GM Powertrain -Parma Plant - Transmission Division (4T60/65-E)"...So if you feel the need to debate it, debate it with him.
In anycase, I think if you were to add a supercharger to a car in excellent operating condition that everything will hold up properly. I don't think even if you got 240hp and 290# of torque that it would be beyond the scope of cast pistons, cast rods, and a cast crank.