Very sick 94 Olds 88 Royale - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 08-20-2005, 08:35 PM   #1
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Default Very sick 94 Olds 88 Royale

Here'* the story..

I inherited a 94 Olds Royale from my sister-in-law. It'* got 158,000 miles on it. She just drove it back to MI from WY last week.

The car runs like ABSOLUTE crap. It shakes and shimies very badly. It won't idle smoothly and constantly feels like it'* going to stall. It'* even worse when in gear with your foot on the brake. When trying to accelerate it has NO power. It does have the 2.73 gear ratio, but still it'* noticable there'* a problem. When accelerating hard (and when the windows are down) you can hear what sounds to be chains dragging on the cement (for a lack of a better term). Something sounds like it'* jingling.

I've changed the plugs, wires, air filter and fuel filter. I did an oil change too. None of that helped. So, I took it to my trusty shop and they poked around with it for 3 hours and hooked it up to their GM Tech II system and found no stored codes. They did find that cylinder 4 was throwing errors, but the Tech II wasn't giving a trouble code or diagnosis. Each cylinder has 95 lbs. of constant pressure and holds it. The mechanic swapped injectors with a good injector from another cylinder and the problem still exists. He thought that the cam position sensor could be bad or the crank position sensor. He also suggested that the lobe for cylinder 4 on the cam shaft could be badly worn...causing the rough running.

So, with no codes, fresh tune up and out $70...I'm at a loss for what to do next! The mechanic and I both believe the cat is not clogged. It doesn't rattle when shaken. I also changed the cam sensor (per the mechanic'* advise). That didn't change anything. BTW, I'm still getting 24 MPG and she will cruise down the e-way all day and night without an issue.

The next few things I thought about trying are.... New PCM, crank position sensor, new cat, and/or a new engine (used from the bone yard).

I really hate to keep pumping money in it foolishly. This is making me nuts. I've never seen a 3800 (an L27 at that!) run this bad.

Help!!
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Old 08-20-2005, 11:41 PM   #2
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Are they absolutely sure that you do not have a bad coil?

Do a small test ans swap the coils from the 99, and see if that makes any diffrence at all..

Its free and worth a shot, will only cost you a few minutes...

And on top of that, if the PCM would not talk to the Tech II, shouldn't they have used a Tech I? This is an OBDI car with an OBD2 connector if memory serves...

But anyhoe try swaping the coils from the 99 and see if it makes any diffrence..

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Old 08-21-2005, 11:07 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr's3800
Are they absolutely sure that you do not have a bad coil?

Do a small test ans swap the coils from the 99, and see if that makes any diffrence at all..

Its free and worth a shot, will only cost you a few minutes...

And on top of that, if the PCM would not talk to the Tech II, shouldn't they have used a Tech I? This is an OBDI car with an OBD2 connector if memory serves...

But anyhoe try swaping the coils from the 99 and see if it makes any diffrence..
Forgot to mention, the other thing I did was hook up a timing light to each of the spark plug wires and each was firing. None seemed erratic to my naked, untrained eye.

Wouldn't a bad coil throw no spark? I'll go try the swap right now for * & Gs!
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Old 08-21-2005, 11:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vital49
Quote:
Originally Posted by jr's3800
Are they absolutely sure that you do not have a bad coil?

Do a small test ans swap the coils from the 99, and see if that makes any diffrence at all..

Its free and worth a shot, will only cost you a few minutes...

And on top of that, if the PCM would not talk to the Tech II, shouldn't they have used a Tech I? This is an OBDI car with an OBD2 connector if memory serves...

But anyhoe try swaping the coils from the 99 and see if it makes any diffrence..
Forgot to mention, the other thing I did was hook up a timing light to each of the spark plug wires and each was firing. None seemed erratic to my naked, untrained eye.

Wouldn't a bad coil throw no spark? I'll go try the swap right now for * & Gs!
Hmmm... I have seen failed coils fire, but weakly... It almost sounds as if you are running on 4 cylinders...

On the same note there is a possibility that the PCM could be shot... But I don't want to say that as of yet... We don't need you wasting more money... You have a few swapable parts, so you do have some freebies between the 99 and the 94... Hope we can help you get these problems ironed out..

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Old 08-21-2005, 02:28 PM   #5
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Don...

I swapped the three coils and it seems to run a little bit better....but not by much. It could just be my imagination too because I'm so hopeful to get this resolved!

The next thing I was thinking about trying was swapping the ICM from the 99 to the 94. Are those swapable?
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Old 08-21-2005, 03:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vital49
Don...

I swapped the three coils and it seems to run a little bit better....but not by much. It could just be my imagination too because I'm so hopeful to get this resolved!

The next thing I was thinking about trying was swapping the ICM from the 99 to the 94. Are those swapable?
Its the same ICM, just attached in a diffrent manner

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Old 08-21-2005, 09:02 PM   #7
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I swapped the ICM from the 99 to the 94. I didn't notice that the attachment is any different. It connected in the exact same manner.

However, after swapping all 3 coils and the ICM the car still runs very poorly.

What do you think I should try next?
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Old 08-22-2005, 11:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vital49
I swapped the ICM from the 99 to the 94. I didn't notice that the attachment is any different. It connected in the exact same manner.

However, after swapping all 3 coils and the ICM the car still runs very poorly.

What do you think I should try next?
The attachment is pretty much the same... The real diffrence is in the bracket for the ICM between the 2 engines...

Still runs very poorly...

Does it run poorly as soon as you start it? And then continue to do so after it has warmed up?

Has the PCM stored any codes?

Also would you happen to know anyone with a 94-95 H or C body with a 3800 V6? These cars will all have the same PCM with a diffrent EPROM... If you know anyone that has one a test may be in order...

I can't say for sure if the PCM is the culprit.... If I was next door we'd be at it with a scantool, and a spare PCM in hand...

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Old 08-22-2005, 12:32 PM   #9
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Ya, this is a frustrating one, Don.

I had it scanned one week ago today and there were no stored codes. They had it on the GM Tech system.

Yes, it runs poorly right from start up. Doesn't matter if it'* cold or hot. No power when it'* hot or cold, either.

I could likely buy a used PCM from the bone yard. They have a return policy. What would have to change for the EPROM? I'm not even sure what EPROM stands for!

I can come up with another PCM.
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Old 08-22-2005, 12:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vital49
Ya, this is a frustrating one, Don.

I had it scanned one week ago today and there were no stored codes. They had it on the GM Tech system.

Yes, it runs poorly right from start up. Doesn't matter if it'* cold or hot. No power when it'* hot or cold, either.

I could likely buy a used PCM from the bone yard. They have a return policy. What would have to change for the EPROM? I'm not even sure what EPROM stands for!

I can come up with another PCM.
I just hate to see money spen on something that is not the problem... But in your case the PCM may be bad... Its hard to say...

It would have been good to see all of the info thast the Tech 1 or Tech 2 was seeing from the PCM... Might have given us some ideas....

The EPROM ( Eraseable Programable Read Only Memory ) Chip, is something like the Mem-Cals you hear about for the 88-93 3800'*.... But a bit newer...

If you were to get a junkyard PCM, you would want to swap out the EPROM chip... Unless you found the same kind of car as the one you have...

I'm still baffled... By any chance is the exahust plugged?

And I still wish I was next door.... we would have tested the PCM 20 minutes ago...LOL

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