Oldsmobile When starting new posts, please specify YEAR, MAKE, MODEL, ENGINE type, and whatever modifications you have made.

3.8L Balance Shaft too tight (1998 Oldsmobile Intrigue)

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jun 12, 2019 | 05:45 PM
  #1  
Canuckmeister's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 18
Likes: 1
Canuckmeister is on a distinguished road
Default 3.8L Balance Shaft too tight (1998 Oldsmobile Intrigue)

I am rebuilding my engine. I pulled all bearings, including the rear balance shaft bushing to have the block hot tanked. I used the approved Kent Moore bearing reinstallation tool for the new rear bearing, which says that it places the bearing at the right location/depth when the tool hits the transaxle flange. It seems to indeed be a the right depth location, as upon reinstalling the balance shaft, there does not seem to be any protrusion at the other end of the balance shaft.

(For those of you who don't know, the balance shaft has a bearing sort of like a cam bearing in the back of the block bore, pressed in. In the front, the balance shaft has an integral ball-bearing that stays with and is part of the shaft when it comes out, and which gently squeezes into the front block bore. in front of the ball-bearing is a clip ring, which when hitting the front of the block bore, indicates that the balance shaft is inserted far enough into the block (slides in from front side).

If the rear bearing were too far toward the front of the block when pressed in, it would result in the balance shaft being too far forward, and the clip ring would not be able to contact the front of the block upon insertion because the bearing would prevent the shaft from sliding in deeply enough.

On my application, the shaft seems to go "thump" as the ring hits the front of the block, and it visually appears to be contacting the front of the block, indicating both:

1. The balance shaft is inserted as far as it can go into the block, and therefore is correctly installed; and
2. That necessarily, then, the rear bushing is not too far forward in the bore and is as such not preventing the balance shaft from being installed deeply enough.

The balance shaft spins freely when I rotate it by hand. So all seems fine, right?

Well, there is a metal plate called the "balance shaft retainer" that bolts onto the front face of the block and is shaped to butt up against the front of the ball bearing race on the shaft. This device acts to hold the balance shaft into the block, much like a thrust plate holds a camshaft in the block (although it is form-shaped and is not flat like the camshaft thrust plate).

When I install this, and torque the bolts to 22 ft lbs per spec, the balance shaft tightens up a lot. Such that I can barely turn it with the strength of my hand while gripping it. Seems really tight to me, perhaps way too tight. I don't remember if the factory installation was easy to turn by hand before disassembly, but that seems to be my recollection.

The next step is to install the balance shaft driven gear to the end of the balance shaft. This requires the balance shaft to be held from turning while it is tightened on. The process is to tighten the gear bolt to 16 ft lbs, and then rotate an additional 70 degrees. The shaft is snug enough when doing this, that it won't even start to turn when tightening the gear bolt at the end until the torque reaches about 10-12 ft lbs. Only then do I need to hold the balance shaft from turning.

The procedure also calls for shaft end play to be measured after the balance shaft retainer is installed. Spec is for not more than 0.028" of end play. Well, as you can imagine by the tightness of the shaft, I cannot achieve any end play by hand.

QUESTION: is this normal on a virgin install? In other words, if I get the motor running, will the tightness dissipate by high rpm friction of the shaft against the retainer, or from the inner face of the rear bearing? If this is not normal, please describe what normal would look and feel like. Is it possible that the rear bearing is actually too far forward by as little as 0.001" or so, which is not visible by the eye, but is leading to the tightness once the retainer is snugged up?

Please help. This build has already been delayed, and I am very frustrated.

Lastly, note that I have already installed the rear crankshaft seal and rear seal housing cover. This is relevant because the balance shaft bearing can no longer be accessed from the rear side of the block unless all of that work is undone. NOTE further that I may be able to move the rear bearing back a wee bit from pressing or hitting it (I have the correct Kent Moore bearing mover/remover insert) it from inside the back block wall. However, as the front ball bearing clip ring seems to be fully contacting the front of the block, moving the rear bearing may be irrelevant.

I really appreciate the help of anyone has done builds on engines with balance shafts and friction/contact retainers on the front of the block, to tell me whether the foregoing is normal, or definitely not mormal, and in either case, whether I can proceed with further assembly and installation and let it "sort itself out" by wearing the retainer metal off or whatever. NOTE: the front retainer seems to "stretch" a little just before it is fully torqued to spec, so I am hoping firm contact that makes the hand unable to rotate the balance shaft is in fact normal.

Thanks!
Reply
Old Jun 12, 2019 | 06:37 PM
  #2  
Canuckmeister's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 18
Likes: 1
Canuckmeister is on a distinguished road
Default Solved

I used my old camshaft as a an anvil to place against the rear balance shaft bearing, and struck it good and hard with a 4 lb sledge. Nudged the bearing back about .010". Result is a free spinning balance shaft with retainer torqued to spec!

Problem solved.
Reply
Old Jun 19, 2019 | 05:49 PM
  #3  
CathedralCub's Avatar
Senior Member


True Car Nut
 
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,758
Likes: 1,004
From: Earth
CathedralCub is a splendid one to beholdCathedralCub is a splendid one to beholdCathedralCub is a splendid one to beholdCathedralCub is a splendid one to beholdCathedralCub is a splendid one to beholdCathedralCub is a splendid one to beholdCathedralCub is a splendid one to behold
Default

Looks like you solved it . . . but yeah not normal. Something like that shouldn't have to break in at hundreds of RPM in order to turn freely. That would equate to metal in pan etc.
Reply
Old Jun 19, 2019 | 09:59 PM
  #4  
Canuckmeister's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 18
Likes: 1
Canuckmeister is on a distinguished road
Default Final tip

the balance the balance shaft bearing which is press-fit into the rear block bore much the same as a camshaft bearing is difficult to locate when to stop moving it in. Don't try to reinstall one of these bearings without the proper Kent Moore J Tool used by GM dealerships. Even though I did use that tool I made the mistake I was putting too much torque on the tool and thereby moved that bearing too far forward on installation. The tool has a big flange that as it moves forward by the force I've rotating the knot on the shaft will eventually make contact with the transaxle to engine flange which protrudes at the rear top side of the block. However this flange only touches it by a slight overlap I've about 1/16 or 1/32 of an inch and the remaining 350 degrees of the flange is suspended in open-air. If you continue to turn the tightener nut on the tool shaft you will actually Flex the tool enough to move the bearing forward a couple of thousands of an inch even though the top edge of the tool is contacting the transaxle to engine flange. that will result in a situation where the balance shaft cannot be inserted all the way into the block and therefore sticks out the front a tiny bit. enough that when you install the retainer over the front of it it no longer is able to spin freely. here is the tip. To avoid all of this when using the proper installation tool turn the installer nut only until the flange on the tool gently starts to make with the transaxle to engine flange. As soon as it makes physical contact stop turning the tightener otherwise you will Flex the tool and cause the bearing to come forward a wee bit more which is too much.
Reply
Old Jun 20, 2019 | 11:47 AM
  #5  
CathedralCub's Avatar
Senior Member


True Car Nut
 
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,758
Likes: 1,004
From: Earth
CathedralCub is a splendid one to beholdCathedralCub is a splendid one to beholdCathedralCub is a splendid one to beholdCathedralCub is a splendid one to beholdCathedralCub is a splendid one to beholdCathedralCub is a splendid one to beholdCathedralCub is a splendid one to behold
Default

Nice write up! I'm sure this will help folks down the road.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
eazhar
1992-1999
9
Mar 25, 2012 05:58 PM
airlife9
2000-2005
4
Nov 22, 2010 01:00 AM
waynepar
2000-2005
1
Jan 27, 2008 11:37 AM
toastedoats
2000-2005
6
Nov 28, 2005 08:31 AM
Archon
2000-2005
5
Oct 11, 2004 05:44 AM




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:46 AM.