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Old 09-29-2008, 01:05 PM   #1
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Default These figures can't be debated either, can they?

These figures can't be debated either, can they?


how the hell can anyone say mccain should be our next prez is beyond me. look at the numbers people. we can't allow the republicans do keep doing this.





found this too:

Seems a good representation of the U.*. government putting out the flames on their own ***, while everything else around them burns down.
wall street must be so happy. they get screwed and then the gov says no wait we'll just make the tax payers pay for this companies fudge up. it'* ridiculous.



i am seriously losing faith in our governments ability to do anything productive.

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Old 09-29-2008, 01:52 PM   #2
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i am seriously losing faith in our governments ability to do anything productive.
Welcome to the 1960'*
We can't see your images.
You should look around and get some facts before you make stupid comments like you did.
The dems have owned the house ad senate for two years and haven't done jack but take out tax money and give it away to the people that are just takers or the dem get rich buddys.
Its great to hear that you just woke up but now ts time to start looking around.

I have to agree that when the FDA finds bad beef they blow the wistle, everyone is placed on notice, etc, with this financial situation... my wife and I have been watching this and knowing that when these arms out there are going to convert to interest plus principle, millions are going to loose their homes, and frankly its been pissing us off. My question is... why hasen't the gov rasied the flag three years ago???

Then they (Gov officials) get together, like nobody ever saw it coming, decide to bail out the company'* that have been evicting homeowners... not cool at all. Then your beloved dems decide that they can't bail out the big boysunless they get 14 billion of that money for their acorn...??? WTF, that'* another ear-mark for the dems and their get rich buddys. Not acceptable...

The gov needs to back refinancing those loans for the homeowners, not the big banks.

One more thing because you and your friends dems just don't seem to be able to understand.
I have heard for years that the republicans give big tax breaks to the big businesses.... think about it. Use HP or Lucent for example.
The gov failed to offer incentive for these companys, so they took their operatins to Mexico, or singapore... HP is and has been laying off thousands of employees for years and they open their operations outside of the US. Giving tax breaks to the big businesses in the US is a necessary evil.

Really... do some reasearch.. do it for your country.

The repubs are willing to do a financial bailut for the greater good of the country.
The dems ae willing to do a financial bail out for the country if they get something out of it, or its another two years of gridlock in the house & senate. Its BS IMHO ..

I'm voting for John & Sarah, at least they believe in the greater good of the USA, not their deep pockets.
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Old 09-29-2008, 03:58 PM   #3
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do you honestly think palin could run this country?

i wonder why my pictures didn't work.
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:05 PM   #4
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:25 PM   #5
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Palin thinks cereationalism should be taught in school. She also believes in noah'* ark. i mean come on.

You also failed to mention that mccain is against a womens right to choose. They can't help but to stick their noses into the private life of a citizen, a woman having the right to determine her own body'* destiny. I wish they were as concerned about viable lives, such as the Iraqis that are being slaughtered in the name of democracy and how about those being murdered by the state !!? Aren't those lives worth saving, or are they throwaways, too !!! You Republicans should adapt a more accurate slogan : Don't do as I do, do as I say. Your duplicity knows no bounds.


he also wants to help banks & not the public in regards to foreclosures, he also wants to privatize social security. scary isnt it?

McCain wants to extend the Bush tax cuts. Obama, proposing new spending for health care, wants to boost taxes on wealthier Americans. McCain pledges to prosecute the war in Iraq to a conclusive victory. Obama promises to bring troops home in 16 months.

MC-CAIN’* EXTRAORDINARY EXPERIENCE:
• Sacrifice of American Wealth and Blood for the Sole Benefit of Israel
• Amnesty for Illegal Mexicans Aliens Usurping Jobs and Services
• Outsourcing of Jobs and Technology to China
• Early Release from Captivity for Military Secrets
• McCain-Feingold Legislation Suppressing Freedom of Speech
• McCain-Leiberman Control Gun Legislation
• Slander and Ridicule of Huckabee, Romney, and Ron Paul
• Roberts and Falwell, “agents of intolerance”
• Roe vs. Wade Sacrificial Killing of Children
• To “occupy Iraq for 100 years”, “bomb Iran”, and “just keep Afghanistan”.
• Veto of Bush Tax Cuts
• Keating Five Crooks
• Unsolved Recession and Inflation Problem
• Unsolved Heath Care Problem
• Unsolved Social Security Problem
• Long Scandalous, Contentious, and Non-Productive Political Career

McCain Voted with the Bush Administration 89 Percent of the Time. Since President Bush took office, McCain has supported Bush’* positions 89 percent of the time. McCain’* support of Bush’* policies reached as high as 95 percent in 2007. [Congressional Quarterly Voting Study, 110th Congress]

what we need is not another bush

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Old 09-29-2008, 10:03 PM   #6
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Lets give all members feelings in this very troubling time respect please. This is a car forum and though I'm going to let this thread stand for the moment, I'm not going to have members of either party calling the others names or ideas stupid. Lets either discuss these troubled times with an air of decency towards each other or I'll lock it and remove any further such discussions.

An Anti-Government Independents view...............

Lets All wake up here. NOBODY gets to the level of the political arena that allows them to run for President without their pockets lined and dirt accumulated. Second, the Presidency/Executive branch is not all powerful, not does it enact legislation. Everyone wants to point at the Executive Branch as the root of all evils while the Senate and to a slightly lesser degree the House vote on enact all our troubles while they amass huge fortunes. Why is it that the majority of Senior Senators who started with modest incomes and backgrounds end up multi millionaires with just a low 6 figure income? Special interests / lobbyists / pork barrel projects etc; the Fed (not the Presidency) putting bandaids on the economy by giving money away for a decade (this started pre Bush); and allowing sub-prime mortages to be sold in lots as securities; has put us into a freefall the country hasnt seen since '29. If a Central Bank hadnt been created way back when, this would never have happen. They should have stick it out then and we should now. I dont think neither nominee or party has a credible answer to the present problem. I am glad the bailout stalled in the House today and it is going to take a harder look at the plan. And believe me. @ 54 and retired, I am watching my IRA'* bleed to death right now. But I rather take the hit now and hope for a recovery then watch them tap 3/4'* of a trillion dollars to bailout the mortgage industry. Let Wall Street do their posturing, playing chicken little( the sky is falling) and let the stocks slide some. It can not last. America'* Fortune 500 is solvent, productive, and can take what is actually an honest devaluation of stocks that have become seriously overinflated and not worth what they have been bringing anyway. It'* funny that as the top level government officials cry the money machine is failing, when Banks such as Chase, Bank of America, and Citicorp are still strong enough to buy up the few that are actually failing because they put to much of their portfolio into what amounts to junk sub prime mortgage securities.

Why are they so worried? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac which on the surface appear to be private companys are actually Federally started and charted institutions that have been being siphoned off by our top Senate and Congressional members all along. Obama or McCain?? It doesnt matter. we all sheep being herded to a life long bleeding slaughter. Whatever flavor you chose, it going to be business as usual for the elected elite. They are using the same scare tactics that have effectively stripped us of most of our civil rights already. Excuse me, I have to go..... Men in Black Suits are banging on my door

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Old 09-30-2008, 12:50 PM   #7
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Why are they so worried? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac which on the surface appear to be private companys are actually Federally started and charted institutions that have been being siphoned off by our top Senate and Congressional members all along. Obama or McCain?? It doesnt matter. we all sheep being herded to a life long bleeding slaughter. Whatever flavor you chose, it going to be business as usual for the elected elite. They are using the same scare tactics that have effectively stripped us of most of our civil rights already. Excuse me, I have to go..... Men in Black Suits are banging on my door
Well put.

My position is this.
Obama thinks I'm the wealthy people, I'm gonna get taxed more. I get audited every other year because my relocation company missreported almost 7 years ago. The state or Oregon got me for $1,700.00 from 2004, wouldn't allow moving expense deductions because I was moving from... How would you like to get taxed over & over & over every year.

When I hear additional spending.. doesn't matter what its for, it means, tax... then spend. I pay those taxes.
I paid $28,000.00 in fed tax alone last year, I tithe 10% minimum, I make donations already anyway.

Then the gov sell-outs make it a law that people must buy auto insurance, someone not insured hit my car, I have to fix it with my un-insured motorist insurance, no problem for them, they simply can't register their car... My auto insureance in Phoenix is $800.00 a year more expensive because of the mexicans that come into town, steal cars, take them over the boarder Not cool....
I'm raising two kids, can't afford to sock away money into my retirement.. 401K is like having a bleeding hole in my retirement.
Those numbers in the pictures, so what, the repubs can shuffe the numbers the same way and make the dems look like big time spenders. and they are. Obama'* financial manager was with a big corp, made 90 million in three years. is that necessary? nope, they allow the rich to get richer, the wealthy, me.. slightly over six figures, I get hammered. 28% of my income.. I am tired of tax & spend.
You know why?????
I am not eligable for any gov assistance... that'* a big 0%. Gov takes my money, gives it to other people, I'm not eligable. I don't even get an apology letter with my pay stub.

dems & repubs alike.. there sell-outs... the gov let us down... IMHO nobody should be eligable for re-election, there all sell-outs. if they can't get the job done, they need to be fired. if you don't do your job you'd get fired. Should be the same for them.

I get hordes of emails about the dems spending, I don't go posting them on forums, maybe I should.

This subjects ticks me off, I'm willing to voice MHO too.

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Old 09-30-2008, 01:33 PM   #8
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Glad I'm not alone here amongst those who think they see a little clearer than the media allows most. We sound alot alike PDX. I make a little over 6 figures, tithe, and pay what they deem is my fair?share of taxes. And now people/government think I'm rich? Worked my *** off, didn't treat my income as disposable, saved and made some good investments along the way. Now it seems the government see'* the upper middle class as the bracket to take the most from. Dont want to upset their actually rich friends who are helping them get up that ladder, and dont want to **** off the lower brackets and start a class war. So lets take the largest group, the honest working Americans who worked hard by the rules to get to a modest somewhere and tax them into working till, what do I hear in "Washington whispers" 69? Great, I did it the American way and what do I have to look forward to? Going back to work as a Walmart greeter because my joints cant take any more construction work and my Retirement choices fell flat on their face as they up the Social Security to 69? I have a "militia minded" friend here in the backwoods of PA, he has a colourful commentary about investments. He says to forget about and dump silver and gold, put you money in bullets. They wont depreciate and will soon be the "currency of the day"

On a byline, I filled my propane tanks for the winter @ $3.70 a gallon. With an average house around here taking 150 gallons of propane or heating oil a month to stay warm...... (Glad my main heating fuel is wood) I got to go now, I'm a headed ta town to trade some of this 90% Silver coinage I've had boxed fer sum bullits.
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Old 09-30-2008, 08:03 PM   #9
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I have to apologize for my rants, normally I just pay, keep it on the down low... when I watch the politics on TV i start getting ticked because its not fair & balanced news reporting.

I like John because he never sold out his country, and of course it my counrty too, I was born here, I got my SS number when I was a kid, my first job I made $1.75 per hour at minimum wage I paid my own way thru school, same for my wife. I hear people talk about their parents giving them money for a house, paying for their edu.. etc.... Boittom line, I had to work the good old fasion way, hard work.

The problem I have with Barack (not sure on spelling) is that he is a lawyer. I've seen the picture of him and the Hillary-witch standing in front of the American flag... everyone with their hands on their harts except Obama, he thinks its a violation of his rights to be expected to put his hand over his hart while listening to the nations greatest song. I just don't get that??? call it "my bad" but i just don't get it.

He never served in the US armed forces. Why not? Lawyers don't have too? or is it a violation of their rights to serve for their country...

Sarah Palin has written more bills then Obama has, actually Obama has never written a bill. I think she'* more qualified to be the VP then Obama is qualified to be the prez...
i don't think John is the best fit for the prez but he'* the best of the two when choosing between the two candidates because he believes in his country and he'* not interested in getting rich, he'* already set FWIW. He'* willing to do it for the greater good of the country.
Obama... I can't figure it out, what can he do besides tax me more, give it to people like my in-laws who don't come to visit because they don't have money for gas. they hate me because I have a job.
That excuse was fine 17 years ago when I married my wife but after all these years they still haven't done squat with their lives.. but i still pay my taxes and I also paid for a share of their 4 childerns hospital bills because they still don't have jobs with medical. That sucks for them too.. i guess.. I would imagine, somehow the bills do get paid and that really beggs the question, how do they pay their doctor bills?

I'm all for re-newable power resources, I'd love to be involved in new technology, that'* why I'm in my industry right now anyway, i want to be part of the future.
So I submitt to you that I am totally on the fence with the energy issues.
I like the idea of being the last nation standing with oil.
I like the idea of drilling American oil because its a bridge to get the US into the new technologies without going broke on foreign oil supply.
Bio-diesel smells, I don't like the smell. why can't we just move forward. The confusion for me is, why are we doing nearly nothing. just because we don't know the approach doesn't don't make a move. Let'* start trying new stuff. let'* try and fail, how many inventions are made from mistakes anyway? let'* go make some mistakes. Let'* buiild some nuke plants, then develope the more efficiant reactor. wouldn't it be great if we could use more then 5% of the rods at those nuke plants? I think so.
With alkl the mechanical energy in water, it will make some awesome engines wen the day'* all done.
Did you know that with solar we can only capture 18% of the energy from the sun, wouldn't it be more efficiant to capture 80% of the energy. we can only capture the IR band, nothing from the color spectrum. We can transfer heat for our swimming pools thou-

Sorry about the colorfull conversation, FWIW, I'm registered to vote and I will.
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Old 09-30-2008, 10:02 PM   #10
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I have to apologize for my rants, normally I just pay, keep it on the down low... when I watch the politics on TV i start getting ticked because its not fair & balanced news reporting.

I like John because he never sold out his country, and of course it my counrty too, I was born here, I got my SS number when I was a kid, my first job I made $1.75 per hour at minimum wage I paid my own way thru school, same for my wife. I hear people talk about their parents giving them money for a house, paying for their edu.. etc.... Boittom line, I had to work the good old fasion way, hard work.

>>>1st of all John is a traitor to his county. he was given an early release from captivity for GIVING UP
>>>Military Secrets. Also you sound just like obama. he worked his way all the way to harvard on his
>>>own and then to grad school all on his own just like his wife did. then after that he became a
>>>community organizer to help his detriot community where he lived which was not suburbia infact quite
>>>the opposite. you make it out like you're better and more of an american? maybe i'm reading to far
>>>into it...



The problem I have with Barack (not sure on spelling) is that he is a lawyer. I've seen the picture of him and the Hillary-witch standing in front of the American flag... everyone with their hands on their harts except Obama, he thinks its a violation of his rights to be expected to put his hand over his hart while listening to the nations greatest song. I just don't get that??? call it "my bad" but i just don't get it.

>>>it is a violation of his rights...? he doesn't have too. just google it. just because i don't get on my knees or >>>hold my hands claps does it mean i'm praying wrong?



He never served in the US armed forces. Why not? Lawyers don't have too? or is it a violation of their rights to serve for their country...

>>>you can serve your country by more ways then by serving in the army. in a hell of alot more ways. he
>>>educated himself, worked for the people...decided to not join an army lead by old bitter men, who
>>>take commands from other old bitter men. not to take anything away from the men in our military they are >>>doing a great job and i thank them. but educating yourself, helping your fellow american, etc is just as >>>patriotic imo.



Sarah Palin has written more bills then Obama has, actually Obama has never written a bill. I think she'* more qualified to be the VP then Obama is qualified to be the prez...

>>>you'd rather have palin vs obama???? you do realize there is a reason obama is for prez vs her right?
>>>again i can't honestly understand how anyone things she is suitable for the role.




i don't think John is the best fit for the prez but he'* the best of the two when choosing between the two candidates because he believes in his country and he'* not interested in getting rich, he'* already set FWIW. He'* willing to do it for the greater good of the country.

>>>by that do you mean: To “occupy Iraq for 100 years”, “bomb Iran”, and “just keep Afghanistan”.




Obama... I can't figure it out, what can he do besides tax me more, give it to people like my in-laws who don't come to visit because they don't have money for gas. they hate me because I have a job.

>>>uhhh? he Veto'd of bush tax cuts on the middle class. you know the middle class what you and I are.
>>>McCain wants to extend the Bush tax cuts on special interest and big business(which may be good
>>>or bad but mainly bad imo because who and why get the tax breaks). Obama'* been proposing new
>>>spending for health care, wants to boost taxes on wealthier Americans.




That excuse was fine 17 years ago when I married my wife but after all these years they still haven't done squat with their lives.. but i still pay my taxes and I also paid for a share of their 4 childerns hospital bills because they still don't have jobs with medical. That sucks for them too.. i guess.. I would imagine, somehow the bills do get paid and that really beggs the question, how do they pay their doctor bills?

some people born poor stay poor. others rise. i feel sorry for your inlaws. have you tried to help them be better Christians and help them achieve both financially and spiritually?

I'm all for re-newable power resources, I'd love to be involved in new technology, that'* why I'm in my industry right now anyway, i want to be part of the future.

>>>great. me too man i know EXACTLY how you feel. the sooner the better the fact we ship millions and
>>>millions of american money into the arab states and the rest into china we'll be in alot better shape.
>>>we don't make anything in america anymore. which means we have to be the 1st and best in
>>>techonology and innovation.




So I submitt to you that I am totally on the fence with the energy issues.

>>>understandably. both dems and reps have failed on this issue. kinda like when ever there is a major
>>>problem in america america just stagenates on it: heathcare, alt. energy, wars.



I like the idea of being the last nation standing with oil.

>>>i like the idea to be the 1st nation off oil. not requiting it and destroying our environment and our
>>>economy.



I like the idea of drilling American oil because its a bridge to get the US into the new technologies without going broke on foreign oil supply.

>>>possibly. i like the idea of keeping it incase the world runs out we can be the last to have it. gives us
>>>a HUGE power and leverage over other people.



Bio-diesel smells, I don't like the smell. why can't we just move forward. The confusion for me is, why are we doing nearly nothing. just because we don't know the approach doesn't don't make a move. Let'* start trying new stuff. let'* try and fail, how many inventions are made from mistakes anyway? let'* go make some mistakes.

>>>just like i was saying america seems to stagnate on these major issues instead of moving forward AT
>>>ALL. healthcare, energy, environment, oil dependence, etc. etc.





Let'* build some nuke plants, then develope the more efficiant reactor. wouldn't it be great if we could use more then 5% of the rods at those nuke plants? I think so.

>>>I'm all about more nuke plants. but as you said we REALLY need to build more efficient* reactors. >>>Did you know only Nixon polled worse then Bush junior? and now we are looking at electing this guy: >>>McCain Voted with the Bush Administration 89 Percent of the Time. Since President Bush took >>>office, McCain has supported Bush’* positions 89 percent of the time. McCain’* support of Bush’* >>>policies reached as high as 95 percent in 2007. [Congressional Quarterly Voting Study, 110th >>>Congress]






With alkl the mechanical energy in water, it will make some awesome engines wen the day'* all done.
Did you know that with solar we can only capture 18% of the energy from the sun, wouldn't it be more efficiant to capture 80% of the energy. we can only capture the IR band, nothing from the color spectrum. We can transfer heat for our swimming pools thou-

>>>i agree. interestingly enough a kid developed a way using nano tubes to RADICALLY increase their
>>>efficiency rating. it'* already heavily invested in and i can't wait fro the results. assuming they make
>>>these at close to the 65% as they are hoping for and cheap i'd line my roof. hello paychecks from the
>>>energy company when i start feeding back into their grid!

Sorry about the colorfull conversation, FWIW, I'm registered to vote and I will.


>>>i love the colorful conversation. it'* fun, informative, and interesting to read and learn.
sorry for using the >>> and not quoting each sectio but i got lazy and have no mouse atm.

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