My dad told me the 75% thing upfront.. guess he was wrong.. again.

You sure about the wider tire stuff.. because my mom'* vdub has a fairly small footprint and it'* horrible, while my dad'* Saab 93 has a wider tire [about the size of mine.. MAYBE wider] and it is excellent in the snow.. even with a 200ish hp turbocharged engine.

The low rpm torque helps by you don't have to rev the engine up to get into it'* powerband, thus spinning the tires more, losing more traction than if you had low rpm torque. That way it can pull you though, with little tire slip.

I don't know about aggressive and not aggressive tread design.. tires aren't a strong point for me.

Dude.. If my car were running right now, i'd be driving it. Legality doesn't phase me.. but morality does. It'* just my the morals my parents instilled in me. Both of them drove without a license.. my mom a lot less than my dad. I take after my dad... Cops around here still think the Bonneville is my mom'* car [I am secondary on the title and insurance..] so if they tag me, they'll see my mom'* name, not mine. Plus I keep in-town driving to a minimum. I still drive a little.. like when my mom is too tired or whatever. Just.. not very much since my car stopped running. But, that'* enough off topic stuff.. back on topic.


-justin

I love my Bonnies in the snow with a good set of winter tires....

I had so much fun on Thursday.... my car went thru anything....
I had to drive 4 people home because they couldn't get their cars out of the parking lot @ work. Then later we went back and got the cars.... nothing stopped my Bonnie.

But tires are key too.... one of the cars that had to be left was a 93 Bonnie, but her tires were all season and bald.... so bald... but we did get it later, once the roads were plowed.

But forget the Civics and Sunfires... no weight.. and all seasons = no traction.
Even the trucks were getting out, the rwd light weights.... haha

As for the wider tires, they will do worse in the snow then a narrower tire on the same car because of the weight distribution across the tire. A bigger tire won't sink down into the snow as much as a narrower tire. You want to sink down and grip the road, not the snow. So in the winter, narrower is better. An aggressive tread design also does not hurt.

As for the driving without a license, its no wonder insurance prices are so high, and so many people have such a hard time driving. Honestly, if you don't have a license, stay off the road. People like you REALLY **** me off. It doesn't make me feel safe at all knowing that i have to drive on the same roads as other morons that don't have a drivers license.

Shawn

Not to be rude.. but I drive a lot better than some of my friends with licenses. If you saw me drive, you would never know I didn't have a license. My parents and friends both say I am a very good driver.. am I saying I could take on the world? Hell no. But, I understand the rules of the road, I can keep the car on the road, I know what to do in a multitude of situations, and I know how big my car is. That'* more than I can say for a lot of other teenagers that I have seen drive. Plus, there is no replacement for experience. So, the more driving I do, the better I will become. Am I always on the road? No. Do I travel long distances? No. Do I travel at night, or when visibility is low? No. Do I do donuts in the middle of a deserted highway? No. When my car was road worthy, I travelled just under 300 miles in 6 weeks. That isn't a whole lot.. IMO.

If anyone wants to continue this topic, PM me or hit me up on AIM or some ****. This is extremely off topic at the moment.


-justin

No need to take this elsewhere, this is in the lounge afterall and we're talking about snow, I don't think this is gonna hurt anything here.

I don't care how good of a driver your friends or your parents (which might I point out you already said themselves drove without licenses, why didn't they have licenses, apparently they aren't the best of drivers themselves) think you are. You are 14 years old. You don't have the experience you should have (you even agree wtih me that you should have experience) to be driving a car. How do you get experience, a learners permit. Go through drivers ed, and get your permit so you can drive with your parents and get experience legally. This is why you are required to get X amount of hours before you can get your license in Michigan. If 14 year olds should be driving cars, then you woudln't have to be 16 to get a license. Believe me, when I was 14 I thought I should be able to get a license and I thought I was a good driver, etc..., but I grew out of that now. I see now why the age is 16 and I respect that. The fact that you completely don't care at all that it is illegal just blows my mind, and that your parents don't care. Its just plain stupid. What are you gonna do when you're sitting at a stoplight and some dumbshit slams into the back of you? You know who gets the ticket in that situtation, oh yeah, not the guy at fault (him), you, beause you don't have a license, and you'll get some big penalty and have to wait longer before you can get your license. Then try going to the insurance company to get the car fixed.

Oh yeah, but thats right, you're too good of a driver, thats not gonna happen to you. Right... Hopefully someone knocks some sense into you and you don't learn what I'm trying to tell you the hard way.

Shawn

Honestly, that last comment you made was un-called for, and inappropriate.

My parents do care. My dad doesn't know I drive without my mom [he knows I drove with her]. My mom doesn't care if I drive with her. I have been caught [by her] driving alone. My parents drove at 15 without a license.. they both had their temps.. and this was in Montreal in the '70s.. the times were different then.. as they say.

And for your information, I have the Driver'* Ed Book. Yes, I know it is no replacement for the 24 hours of lecturing.. but I have read it a million times, and I could probably recite it to you. I do drive with my parents. Both my parents have let me drive.. and both write down exactly what I do wrong, and I usually only do one or two things wrong [braking too hard is the main one.. switching vehicles is hard for me]. It is 50 hours of driving, 10 being at night.. I probably have 5 or 6 of those hours [driving with my parents is limited, and only once have I driven on an interstate]. 2 or 3 hours alone.. maybe.

I am fully aware of the risks. I am not stupid. I know if I get caught, I won't get my license before I am 18. I will never be able to afford the Insurance Premiums if I get in an accident at 16 [or before that, for that matter]. My Insurance Company won't pay a damn thing for my car. For one, I only have Fire and Theft Coverage.. which is limited to 1,000 miles/year and the car cannot leave the state. If I get in an accident.. I have to pay out-of-pocket to repair my car; aware of that. I realize the risks, and I will still take them.


-justin

I thought I would weigh in on this. I'm not agreeing with either of you.

I am 25 yrs old. I started working on my father'a farm at the age of 10. By the age of 11, I was driving tractors in the field and not too long after that, on the road as well. Also at this time, I was raciing go-carts. I raced for 3 years (until I was 15) until I needed a new chassis and we didn't have the money for a new one. By this time I had more practical real world experience behind the wheel of motor vehicles than many people get in a life time. Not only did I know what to do in normal everyday situtations, but I also knew exactly what to do if/when pretty much anything happened.

I bought my Chevelle when I was 14. We worked on it in the shop replacing panels and rebuilding the engine, but I never drove it on the road until I had my license. I would drive it up and down the back driveway at my parents place (~1/2 mile) as well as around in the wheat stubble field around our house.

Now that said, I do not have my CDL, but I have driven tractor trailer for my father during harvest time as was necessary. Being just the 2 of us this past harvest meant that we had to do whatever needed to be done to get everything in before conditions prohibited us. In no way was driving the tractor trailer a screw you to the law by not having a CDL. It was more of a necessity.

I do agree that driving without a license, without a reason is wrong. There are instances where this would/could be necessary, but opensourceguy, you have not shown that your driving was necessary and therefore I saw it was wrong of you to do so. Practice and experience are good points, but to be doing so before you have your learners permit is wrong and I just hope that you don't get caught in the act. Not having a license until you are 18 would suck a lot more than not driving until you were 16. All the people in the world saying that you are a good driver won't help you if you ever were to get pulled over. All it takes is a blown tail/head light and you'd be screwed.

We are touching a very sensitive subject here.
This club certainly does not condon illegal driving....whether that be racing, drinking and driving or driving without a licence due to age or suspension.
That should be reserved to other forums.

We are as much concerned about other drivers as we are about your safety Justin.
And as Shawn pointed out, the fines and other monetary hardships you could get into Justin, is just not worth it.
Don't you realize that no matter whose fault it is in an accident that YOU will be at fault and liable for all damages and person injury
Insurance will not pay. Do you think that they will actually believe that you are your mother?!
Heaven forbid someone jumps out in front of you on the road and you injure or kill them. Even if they are committing suicide, you are at fault.
Insurance companies will love you because they will never pay if they have a legal way out.
Be ware. You have been warned.
Your parents need a ....

I drove to pick up my [at the time] girlfriend. Necessity? No. I am not doing it to spite laws or whatever, I do it because I love driving [not because it is illegal]. I am a straight-edged kid. Honor Role, proudly Drug and Alcohol free, etc.. I have screwed up in the past.. which does kinda add to the risks.. but, I have learned from those experiences. You guys are making me think, though..

I won't be driving w/o a parent in Spring.. because my car is going to stand out with the 80 series I am going to have. After I get my temp in the Summer, the car will be on the road more, and will be commonly seen.. thus me taking her out a few times.. nobody 'll notice. But.. after that, I don't know. I guess I will cross that bridge when it comes. But.. I will have to print this topic out and read it when I am thinking about it.

2000SilverBullet: Yeah.. I do agree with you. You for hire? lol


-justin

Guys lets get back on the topic of snow and off the topic of driving w/o a license or insurance.

OSG, the club does not condone driving without a license or insurance.... if I read anymore about you driving like that I will delete the thread. Consider this your first and last warning.



I'm watching this thread... now lets get back to talking about the snow.....