Loose Change: 2nd Edition - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Lounge For casual talk about things unrelated to General Motors. In other words, off-topic stuff. And anything else that does not fit Section Description.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-10-2006, 01:09 PM   #1
Senior Member
Expert Gearhead
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Posts: 20,892
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Jim W is on a distinguished road
Default Loose Change: 2nd Edition

Anyone seen this documentary? I'm a quasi-conspiracy theorist about the events of 9/11 and seeing that tomorrow is the 5 year anniversary of the "event"...Loose Change was an interesting perspective into that dramatic day.

I've done my best over the years to take an unbaised look at all presented facts, including the 9/11 Commision report as well as the science behind the fall of the WTC. Not only that, but I have a personal vested interest in the redevelopment of the project (my office is the prime architectural consultant of WTC 3 and 4).

What are your thoughts and how do you plan to acknowledge the day.

Also interesting to note that the City of Toronto, plus the regions of Peel, Durham and York Police forces will be the ONLY non-NYC police force present tomorrow to take part in the official 9/11 memorial ceremonies.
Jim W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 01:35 PM   #2
Senior Administrator








Certified Car Nut
 
Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Horseheads, NY
Posts: 15,649
Thanked 1,001 Times in 777 Posts
Mike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond reputeMike has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I myself have mixed views on the conspiracy. Of course, it doesn't help if I have a brother that currently works in the Pentagon. Yet, most of the things we agree on though. I still think its BS that some people think they used explosives to bring the WTC down. Science 101 here people....
Mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 01:41 PM   #3
Senior Member
Expert Gearhead
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Posts: 20,892
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Jim W is on a distinguished road
Default

I also agree firmly that the towers were brought down as a result of the weakened superstructure on the outside of the building. Its also understoood that the open floor space (ie no internal column grid) was supported by thin open web steel joist sitting on metal angle flanges at the the perimeter steel. Once the fire had comprimised the cementitious spray fireproofing on the OWSJ, the steel was exposed to the intense heat. The only question I have though...its the exposure time.

We're talkin about top quality ASTM steel.

However, my views on WTC 7, and the Pentagon are....more leaning towards a more cloudy view of things.
Jim W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 02:39 PM   #4
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,688
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
dillcc is on a distinguished road
Default

Conspiracy believers said it wasn't hot enough to melt steel and I agree with that, BUT it'* not like steel has to actually melt or come very close to lose its ablity to support a load. Once a critical structural member fails, it doesn't take much to continue a progressive collapse. The amount of momentum created by the weight of ALL the floors above the point of collapse was huge. Imagine the force of that weight only dropping the distance of 1 floor as that critical point failed. You don't need explosives to continue that kind of downward momentum.

As far as explosives go...the planes hit each tower at different floors and the towers began their collapse basically at that point. Did they have to compensate for this by placing explosives on every floor from let'* say 60-90 on each tower just in case the plane hit somewhere else than where they were "planning?" Wouldn't maintenance people and building security notice something weird was going on if people were planting that many explosives?
dillcc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 06:47 PM   #5
Senior Member
Expert Gearhead
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Posts: 20,892
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Jim W is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Did they have to compensate for this by placing explosives on every floor from let'* say 60-90 on each tower just in case the plane hit somewhere else than where they were "planning?" Wouldn't maintenance people and building security notice something weird was going on if people were planting that many explosives?
Did you watch the video? A lot of those questions are answered.

One of the most important things that happened was the molten steel found at the bottom of the building(*).

The simple fact remains, there are to many questions that are unanswered, there seems to be to much of a coverup afterwards, after all, your government "convinced" the United Nations that Iraq was an immediately threat....lets not make this about Iraq, but lets just say...don't be convinced by what you are told....question what you are not being told.
Jim W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 06:58 PM   #6
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brighton, MI
Posts: 69
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
VanFaasenC is on a distinguished road
Default

I watched that loose change and was very interested but then did more research and found some of their info very one way if not just false. Their is another film that directly answers most questions brought up in loose change. Do a search and find that one and watch it also then it will even it out.
VanFaasenC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 07:05 PM   #7
Senior Member
Expert Gearhead
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Posts: 20,892
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Jim W is on a distinguished road
Default

I've seen it as well. Also read it

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

There was also a lot of this kinda thing about Farenheit 9/11 and how a lot it was biased as well.

I'll I am trying to say (and/or engage in discussion) is to not blindly accept what happened and what was presented. And how important it is to realize that over 3000 lives were lost. Not to mention the thousands of soldiers and civilians in the Middle east as a direct result of the American invasions of Afganistan and Iraq.
Jim W is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 07:25 PM   #8
Senior Member
Posts like a Corvette
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 1,544
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
NERV is on a distinguished road
Default

farenheit 9/11 was complete crap, totally biased and probly chock full of lies, i give a little more credit to loose change, but im sure they manipulated things to suit their needs as well, but i would bet my life that the government has told just as many lies, now i doubt that the government could orchestrate such an event and at the same time be unable to suppress stuff like loose change, im sure the government knows more than they are telling and i doubt the world will ever know the complete truth
NERV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 08:38 PM   #9
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Brighton, MI
Posts: 69
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
VanFaasenC is on a distinguished road
Default

If they can keep Area 51 such a secret then I am sure there are some details about 9/11 we don't know. But I would really like to believe that I live in a place that would not create something as tragic as 9/11. Alot of people would have to lack to morals and be so far from reallity to think it could create any positive result.
But discussion is good as long as it creates thought and people do research before believing anything and don't become brainwashed away from reality.
VanFaasenC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 08:41 PM   #10
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,656
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
crzydmnd72 is on a distinguished road
Default

Are we talking about the same government who took days to get the most basic supplies into the Gulf after Katrina?

I don't think the public has been fed the straight scoop, but I honestly don't think there was a conspiricy, they just were really REALLY good at picking up the ball and running with it. There is probably much more to this than we will ever be told.

Regardless, I will be remembering the first responder heroes and the innocent victims of this tragedy, just as I remember the OKC tragedy.
crzydmnd72 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Just drove a Special Edition SC'd GP Jim W General GM Chat 28 10-16-2003 06:05 PM
Pontiac "X-Plod" edition bonneville bonnieboy23 1987-1991 5 07-01-2003 03:03 AM
X plod edition dash bonnieboy23 1987-1991 1 06-24-2003 11:46 PM
Who Has An Anniversary Edition?!? Tamara General GM Chat 5 11-14-2002 08:44 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:15 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.