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Old 03-07-2003, 01:03 AM   #11
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yeah i can basically watch my gas tank guage drop as i drive lol. I dunno if it fluxuates or what..but maybe i just look at it too much. I think i'm fine..but confused as u can tell
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Old 03-07-2003, 09:18 AM   #12
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Bonneville gas gages are really wonky, when I accelerate lately the needle drops indicate that the tank is fuller, its really strange. It seems to have a life of its own. In the summer I can get 500 km out of a tank, but in the winter I'm lucky to push 400km.

Bear in mind I never let then tank empty to less then 10L remaining. Sorry, I don't have my metric/imperial convertor handy!!
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Old 03-07-2003, 10:33 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Can't remember exactly, the last time I watched this was on a trip to CA last year. Really pushed the speeds on the way down, so that sucked (literally), but on the way back during the day, I kept it sane. Got well over 400. That was the trip I clocked my 29mpg for the first time. Right after the new tires, too. I duplicated the 29 in late December in Eastern Oregon. Had to nurse the car back after filling up with 87 octane. Didn't want to push the rpm'* with that crap in the car. I actually got 28.xxx something or other. Doing 60.

Anyone know what a stock 93 SSEi gets from the factory (window sticker numbers)?
Mine was getting 23/24ish when I bought it last May, and that was with plugs eroded to .090". The 2 biggest improvements to my mileage were from the airbox/filter mod (1-2mpg over 4 tanks) and the chip. Yes, I actually get better freeway mileage with the chip than I did before it (assuming I take my lead shoe off).
I STILL HAVE MY STICKER....I AM AT WORK RIGHT NOW...SO IF NO ONE REPLIES BY LUNCH TIME...I WILL POST THE NUMBER'*....
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Old 03-08-2003, 10:16 PM   #14
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I think it'* safe to say that those who are doing the best right now, are those who have recent tuneups and live in mild winter climates. Summertime will be basically tuneup dependent.
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Old 03-08-2003, 11:19 PM   #15
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Last tank I got 18.5 MPG. and that was with a lot of highway driving at 75-80

and that was with only jumping on it a few times (2 or 3 times). Personally if I was paying for gas I would do the O2 sensor yesterday. its probally the origional and the car has 52,000 miles on it. but my mom is paying for gas and i have infromed her of the potential for a big jump in mpg and she said she did not want to hear it. go figgure... i mean she is the one always fussing about how money is tight... now for a question, can the O2 sensor hurt preformance???(the engine seems to fall flat on its face about 5000 RPM)
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Old 03-09-2003, 12:16 AM   #16
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Your performance can suffer from a bad O2, causing the engine to run either lean or rich......but your engine drops on it'* face at 5000 rpm'* because you're dropping off your torque and horsepower curves.
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Old 03-09-2003, 12:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
Your performance can suffer from a bad O2, causing the engine to run either lean or rich......but your engine drops on it'* face at 5000 rpm'* because you're dropping off your torque and horsepower curves.
Well in that case, how much to get a new one??? and is it normal for a series II to fall flat on its face above about 5000 RPM

also, could it be part of the cause of my 9.0-9.5 sec. 0-60???
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Old 03-09-2003, 10:18 AM   #18
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I've been getting 16 on the normal city roads. I hope it'* just the winter doing that.
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Old 03-09-2003, 11:55 AM   #19
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Actually it is a government conspiracy (of sorts). California has been doing it for a few years and other parts of the country are starting to do it. Its called MTBE or Oxygenated gas. Some parts of the country use this when they switch to "winter gas" for seasonal production, also. Here is an article I found on this.

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Blame California Legislature for poor gas mileage
If your California car is getting less mileage then last year, call the Calirofnia State Legislature, not your mechanic. All gasoline now sold in California must now meet the requirements of the California Air Resources Board, Phase II. The idea of "watering down" gasoline by adding oxygen was to lean out old carbureted cars so that they would pollute less. In an old carbureted car running rich (too much fuel), the move to oxygenated gas significantly reduces carbon monoxide and hydrocarbon emission. However, the old carbureted cars that were running lean, would now stall on the oxygenated gas unless they are adjusted to use more fuel. These cars were designed for unoxygenated gasoline that is more volatile then the current Phase II gasoline. When it comes time for a Smog Inspection, most of these old cars will fail the out of gear smog idle test due to excessive hydrocarbon emission. They fail because a spark cannot easily ignite the this very lean mixture of low volatile gasoline and air. If your car misses at idle, it will not pass Smog Test II. We pay extra for gasoline with less energy so that old carbureted cars running rich will pollute less. For those of us with Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI), the oxygen sensor detects the added oxygen and says more fuel, more fuel.

Unoxygenated gasoline has more energy per gallon then oxygenated gasoline. This means that it takes more gasoline to supply the same energy. In other words, my Aerostar went from 23 to 20 miles per gallon. A friend'* Toyota 4 by 4 dropped from 17 to 14 miles per gallon. My smog receipts show no change in pollution for my EFI car because it automatically adjusts for the gasoline I use. We pay extra for gasoline with less energy so that old carbureted cars running rich will pollute less. It would be cheaper to fix or destroy these old cars, but the problem in California is, many of them aren't even registered, but that'* another story.

There are some things that you can do to help your old carbureted car pass the new smog tests. 1) Put a heavier oil in the crankcase to put more "load" on the engine. 2) Just before the smog test fill up with good winter "Arizona" gas. i.e. unoxgenated gas with enough volatility to easily ignite. ("Winter Gas" is more volatile then "Summer Gas".) Even though my daughter'* car passed with flying colors in the high RPM test, and would have passes the idle test if in gear (it is an automatic), it just failed the unloaded idle test because of a slight miss. The mechanic refused to test it "in gear" saying it was against the law. Someone later told me that is not true. It seems they do their best to make cars fail. I should have spent the time to go get some "Arizona Gas". It would have been cheaper then the two failed smog inspections and a mechanic adjusting the car to 10 degrees After TDC to "reduce emissions". This dropped the cars mileage from 15 to 5 MPG and also caused it to overheat. On top of that, this "adjustment" was an expensive "repair". It also didn't work. There are no guarantees in this line of work.

Other side effects of adding oxygen to gasoline is rubber hose deterioration and rust of fuel lines. Many old cars were not designed for Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether because of rubber hoses which would crack and leak. In addition, an oxygenated compound, whether it be Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether or Alcohol, absorbs water from damp air, causing fuel lines to corrode from the inside and eventually leak. I have been told that the number of car fires in old cars had increased significantly for a few years after MTBE was introduced. I suspect that many of the metal gas tanks at the Gas Stations also rusted because of MTBE, releasing gasoline and the carcinogenic MTBE into the ground water. Since oxygenated compounds are water soluble, MTBE easily mixes with ground water which can rapidly spread it for miles, making the water unfit to drink.

If you believe the third hand rumors on the internet under "sci.energy" that were posted several years ago, the original purpose of oxygenated gas was an attempt by politicians to force the oil companies to buy alcohol from farmers and thus reduce our dependence on foreign oil, which would reduce the deficit. Didn't work.

I wrote my congressmen to complain about the Federal Law requiring oxygenated gasoline. The answer I received from Boxer was that she to was for "low sulphur diesel fuel". The answer I received from Cunningham was that he too was for the environment and against off-shore drilling. I suppose those were the closest form letters their staff had.
And here is some smoke-and-mirrors from Chevron:

Quote:
1. The gasoline pumps at my Chevron station say that the gasoline is oxygenated during the winter to reduce carbon monoxide emissions. What does "oxygenated" mean and why is this required?

"Oxygenated gasoline" is a mixture of conventional gasoline and one or more combustible liquids which contain oxygen ("oxygenates"). At present, the most common oxygenates are ethanol and MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether). The government requires gasoline to be oxygenated during the winter in areas that have a carbon monoxide pollution problem (cold weather and atmospheric inversions worsen carbon monoxide pollution). Oxygenated gasoline helps engines run leaner, which helps engines, particularly older engines, produce less carbon monoxide.


2. What oxygenates does Chevron use for oxygenated and reformulated gasoline?

Chevron uses primarily MTBE in California and for the East-of-the-Mississippi Reformulated Gasoline (RFG) areas (see question 6 to learn more about RFG), and uses primarily ethanol for the winter oxygenated gasoline programs in Anchorage, Seattle, Spokane, Vancouver, Portland, Southern Oregon, Salt Lake City, Reno, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Tucson, Albuquerque, and El Paso.


3. Why does Chevron use MTBE in some locations and ethanol in others?

There are many factors that are considered by Chevron when choosing an oxygenate to blend into gasoline. One key consideration is cost: Both MTBE and ethanol are generally more expensive than non-oxygenate blendstocks, and MTBE is generally more expensive than ethanol. Another key consideration is that gasoline blended with ethanol must be handled in a special manner to avoid contamination with water, and cannot be shipped in typical gasoline pipelines. Chevron uses ethanol only in areas where it has access to terminal blending facilities, to ensure that our customers always receive oxygenated gasoline that meets all Chevron gasoline performance requirements.


4. How can I tell if I'm getting gasoline blended with ethanol?

Most states require gasoline blended with significant quantities of ethanol to be labeled on the dispenser. Chevron generally delivers gasoline blended with ethanol only when and where required, because ethanol (even with a substantial federal tax break) is usually more expensive than non-oxygenate gasoline blendstocks. Most winter oxygenated programs are administered county by county. For the winter oxygenated gasoline programs in the cities where Chevron markets, the seasons and counties currently required to receive winter oxygenated gasoline are:

Anchorage Oxy Season - 11/1-3/1 Anchorage Borough
Seattle Oxy Season - 11/1-2/29 King, Pierce, and Snohomish counties
Spokane Oxy Season - 9/1-2/29 Spokane county
Vancouver Oxy Season - 11/1-2/29 Clark county
Portland Oxy Season - 11/1-2/29 Clackamas, Multnomah, and Washington counties
Southern Oregon Oxy Season - 11/1-2/29 Josephine (Grants Pass), Klamath (Klamath Falls), and Jackson (Medford) counties
Salt Lake City Oxy Season - 11/1-2/29 Utah (Provo) county
Reno Oxy Season - 10/1-1/31 Washoe county
Las Vegas Oxy Season - 10/1-2/29 Clark county
Phoenix Oxy Season - 10/1-3/31 Maricopa county
Tucson Oxy Season - 10/1-3/31 Pima county
Albuquerque Oxy Season - 11/1-2/29 Bernalillo county
El Paso Oxy Season - 10/1-3/31 El Paso county



5. Will using oxygenated gasoline hurt my gas mileage?

Only a little. Oxygenated gasoline reduces fuel economy an average of 2%-3% because oxygenates contain less energy than non-oxygenated gasoline. Many other factors, like how well your car is maintained, how you drive (do you have a heavy foot on the accelerator?), traffic congestion, rain and snow, cold weather, and tire pressure can combine to impact mileage far more than oxygenated gasoline.


6. Can I use oxygenated gasoline in my lawnmower? How about my boat?

Our survey of the manufacturers of engines for non-automotive uses -- boats, garden tools, chain saws and snowmobiles -- indicates that oxygenated gasoline will perform satisfactorily in most later-model engines. However, some manufacturers expressed concerns about its use in older engines. The owner'* manual is the most authoritative source of information about the fuel requirements of your equipment. If your equipment is older and the manual does not mention oxygenated gasoline, consult an authorized dealer.
Here is another article specific to Minnesota:

Quote:
Q: I just returned to the Twin Cities after spending three years in Pennsylvania and I've noticed a significant drop in my gas mileage. The street/highway ratio hasn't changed significantly and I'm wondering if the decline is being caused by some of the government-mandated additives in gasoline around here during winter. I've always been curious about this. The last time I lived here, the additives were put into the gas during the winter months, not all year. Whenever that happened my mileage went down. When they stopped selling oxygenated gasoline, my mileage went up. Does the cleaner-burning properties of the "winter formula" make up for the reduced mileage? Or does extreme cold weather affect gas mileage?


A: When you were here before, the metro area was still included in the federal Clean Air Act'* oxygenated fuel mandate from Oct. 1 through Jan. 31. By state law, and with the demise of MTBE as an oxygenate, all gasoline sold in the metro area during these months employed ethanol to meet the oxygenate requirement.

Since the metro area had not had a clean-air violation since the early '90s, I believe, several years ago the federal mandate for oxygenated fuels was dropped. But -- and here'* the key issue -- Minnesota laws require ethanol in our gasoline year-round, statewide. (Service stations can, if they wish and with proper application to the state, offer a non-oxygenated gasoline for collector and recreational vehicles, small engines and the like.)

So, you are experiencing what we all experience to some degree, depending on your vehicle -- a drop in fuel economy. For the simple reason that there are just over half as many BTUs of energy in a gallon of ethanol as in a gallon of gasoline, some reduction in fuel mileage is normal. Add to that the additional cold-operation/warmup time from cold weather, and the reduction in fuel economy is even greater.

Do the lower carbon monoxide emissions from the oxygenate in the fuel more than make up for the reduction in fuel economy? That is still a hotly debated question. I believe that with the increasing sophistication of modern engine management systems and much tighter emission controls on newer vehicles, there is less direct benefit from oxygenated fuel. Thus, as older vehicles are scrapped and replaced with newer ones, the emission reductions from the use of oxygenated fuels declines.
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Old 03-09-2003, 12:08 PM   #20
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Diluted fuel.............
Now I'm really pissed.

And they jacked up the price again.
$75 for a fill-up.
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