GM no longer number #1. - Page 3 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Lounge For casual talk about things unrelated to General Motors. In other words, off-topic stuff. And anything else that does not fit Section Description.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-15-2007, 02:17 AM   #21
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
charliemax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 598
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
charliemax is on a distinguished road
Default

What Buttermore said. x2 Just a couple of additions..... this is an op-ed so may be disregarded accordingly.

There is plenty of blame to go around. A good part to be found is many of us. I'm not talking about people who buy GM cars, I'm talking about Americans who own GM stock. GM had to tool for ie SUVs because they had to make profits for EACH QUARTER. 5 and 10 year plans had insufficient capital because a company dare not have a bad quarter or year.. Current offerings are "me too" cars, instead of global new innovation and design.

In contrast, (I don't know about Toyoto) Honda had a 20 year plan to take market share in the US and Euro markets. In the 70s and 80s, they had 100s of billions of dollars of losses. But most of their loans were guaranteed by the Japan govt. I'm not suggesting we go to some quasi-socialism-government business system. But it goes to show how longterm thinking with all your capital onboard can be a compelling economic force.

I still contend that the Japan'* big leg up was because they engineered "small" first and then built up from that. US car makers had to engineer down their big engines. Remember their first 4-cyl cars? Anybody still driving a Vega or Pinto... at least one that hasn't exploded?

We had a discussion 30 years ago when oil was sticking us in the a**. We agreed on what we should do. If we had stuck to that, we'd probably have $20,000 Tesla-like cars available. Except better in every way. I'm no dirtworshipping treehugger, sometimes you have to take your medicine.


From the article...
"GM dictated to the market in terms of design, engineering, vehicle content, pricing, segments -- even down to the paint colors offered."

This is the exact arrogance that almost put IBM out of business. it definitely let Microsoft and Intel blow right past them. Whenever you start telling your customers what they want and stop paying attention to what'* going on around you....

you're screwed. It is just a matter of time.
charliemax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 02:42 AM   #22
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,816
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
GonneVille is on a distinguished road
Default

BTW, Haro, your two pics are a little misleading. The top one is rather obviously a cleaned up photo, or CGI. The second one is real, but it also points up exactly what I'm talking about. Silver-painted cheap plastic.
GonneVille is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 06:18 AM   #23
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho
Posts: 7,545
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Hans is on a distinguished road
Default

Toyota Builds Better Cars, at least they did. They have their issues but are probably more reliable than the competing gm cars. I would never touch a 4 cylinder gm car, ever. Just from the reputation that I hear about and see my friends go thru. However this is what they are good for, cheap reliable transportation,what 90% of americans need. I however want a little more excitement when I push the loud pedal down.
Hans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 10:35 AM   #24
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Purgatory
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
harofreak00 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonneVille
BTW, Haro, your two pics are a little misleading. The top one is rather obviously a cleaned up photo, or CGI. The second one is real, but it also points up exactly what I'm talking about. Silver-painted cheap plastic.
both of those pics are off the website...
harofreak00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 03:02 PM   #25
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,158
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
repinS is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonneVille
Yeah, it'* still all plastic, but the texturing and quality of the plastic is getting better, and the leather is as good as anything. I get into Toyotas and I see low-quality plastic with silver paint or cheap fake carbon-fiber. Tap the plastic with a knuckle and you get a sound like tapping on a Tonka truck.
Truthfully, my main problem with Toyota is that they have absolutely no personality. They're the soulless box that I've always hated. Hondas are almost as bad, but at least they have a little spirit. Nissans I like, they have some real personality. The older Toyotas like the Cressida or the Supra are cool, but I hate the last few generations of Toyotas with a passion. And the new ones are downright ugly.
I agree with you in a few ways - I definately won't touch a newer Toyota, basically anything after 1992 after Cressida was discontinued. Soul-less, but reliable transportation that I wouldn't drive unless I got a REALLY good deal on it or if you gave it to me.

I found I got the Tonka truck plastic feel in the 1991 SSE too, something that wasn't there in the 1985 Cressida

I'll disagree with you on the Honda aspect - relative to Toyota, they've always been the sportier one. The Accord has always had some starch in the steering, more feedback in the brakes, and a little firmer suspension - I'd definately choose one over a Camry as a daily driver. My mom'* Altima (1998, 2.4L) is decently sporty and makes good torque from the long-stroke truck motor, makes for an entertaining daily driver.

That said, my little Civic is a go-kart that weaves in and out of traffic effortlessly, but at the end of the day, with the highway commuting that I do, I still prefer my large sedans, ie Bonneville - don't get me wrong
repinS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 03:21 PM   #26
Senior Member
Posts like a Camaro
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Detroit MI,
Posts: 926
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BonnevilleLErocks is on a distinguished road
Default

just to add to the debate...I think we all can agree all the car companies use plastics, in their interiors, it'* just a way of life. Even the luxury makers (Benz, BMW, Lexus etc...) have plastics (maybe thicker more expensive plastics). Personally I like the interiors on the new Fords (the best out the Big 3 in quality).
BonnevilleLErocks is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Number 1 and Number Auto Manufacturer models outside of Public Aid Office GunsOfNavarone Lounge 1 03-13-2010 03:36 PM
Need Plug Wire Part Number and NGK Plug Part Number!! josho66 2000-2005 11 05-29-2005 01:06 PM
You Know You're No Longer A Kid When... BadTA00 Lounge 4 12-25-2003 02:57 PM
VIN number reader/history on VIN number ne 1 hav this progrm SSEimatt93 General GM Chat 1 07-04-2003 01:42 AM
Well may have the bonnie longer than I thought! buzzbomber88le Lounge 4 06-21-2003 11:56 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:24 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.