Series 1-Series 2 Debate - Page 2 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 09-19-2006, 07:31 PM   #11
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Personally, I'd like to have one of each...really

The low end torque and whine of the Series I is a beautiful thing.

The top end and overall modability of a Series II is also appealing.
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Old 09-19-2006, 07:49 PM   #12
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Look this has been a pretty good thread.... But seems to be a little heated... We are not going to go there....

I strongly suggest that you drive both the series I and series II SC 3800 Bonnevilles... Being that this will be a family car take your pic...

I love the Series I engines myself... But I would have a Series II L67 as well... Either or...

The Mods are out there for both series I and series 2.... However the Series II is more attainable for those Go Fast Mods.... At the very least I would reccomend 94-97 SSEi, 96 - 97 will give you an open and easy to find mod list

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Old 09-19-2006, 08:05 PM   #13
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You all make it sound like the S2 doesn't have low end torque.

It has plenty of grunt on the low end ... almost too much. Launching is rediculously hard with this motor. If anything, this motor has too much low end.
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Old 09-19-2006, 08:36 PM   #14
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Time to clear up some stuff. The Series 1 develops it'* torque at a LOWER RPM. You get into torque quicker.

This is why a S1 will beat a S2 off the line 9 out of 10 times, stock for stock. Many members on this Forum have experienced it.

The Gen3 Series 1 (94/95) is VERY close to the performance of the S2, and a few of us have beaten S2 cars, stock for stock (Marty and I are two of them).

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but the potential is not there with a series 1, especially not with the stock superchargers. The M62 is way too innefficient to compete with the m90
The volumetric efficiency of the 94/95 Gen3 M62 is identical to that of the Gen3 M90'* all the S2 guys here have. The only difference is:

The M90 does NOT outflow the M62 in our application. The M90 is spun SLOWER so that it produces the SAME. The only difference is the temperature of the boost charge in the manifold of the M62 will be slightly hotter due to the faster spinning SC and heat from compression and friction. The difference is minimal. For instance, I'm still flowing more air with my M62 with a 2.0" pulley than an M90 with a 3.2" pulley would by about 10%. If the M90 pulley'* further down to a 3" pulley, I still flow 3% more. Our crank pulleys are the same diameter.

EVERYTHING available for the Series 2 is available for the Series 1 EXCEPT an intercooler (although a couple have been designed, but never built) and HEADERS, but our exhaust manifolds are vastly superior to begin with, and when properly ported, are nearly as good as headers, negating the need or logic in S2 L67 headers.

Series 1 L67'* can easily achieve low 14 second quarter mile times WITHOUT ANY VALVETRAIN WORK. Low 14'* are obviously not the limit, are they?
My 93 SSEi runs Mid-14'* while breaking traction off the line and at the second gear shift on an NHRA prepped dragstrip. If I could actually hold traction, it would be low-14'* to High-13'* as it sits RIGHT NOW. And I have done no valvetrain work whatsoever. Other than a PCM (readily available), upgrading to the 94/95 Supercharger, and alot of attention to detail on the top end of the engine (porting and polishing the SC, TB, and LIM, also the EM'* as mentioned above), I have done very little to be able to run a 2.0" SC pulley. While my list of mods looks extensive to the casual observer, there really is nothing I would consider MAJOR in my list. And anyone else can achieve the same. Oh, I'm not done yet. I've found some more DIY power in the Series 1 L67 that I think I'll be unleashing this winter.

It'* also quite possible to 'wake up' the top end of the S1 very similar to the top of the S2. I've done it. And if you ask Black94SSEi, who just had his LIM ported like mine by Billboost last weekend, it woke his top end up as well.

There are disadvantages and advantages to both. It depends on what you want and how you drive. Many misconceptions in this topic certainly needed clearing up though.
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Old 09-19-2006, 09:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
im going to be buying several 3.8 sc cars over the next several months
Not to shun away from another Bonneville driver, but if you got this kinda ca$h why not buy a V8
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:16 PM   #16
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I'm not in the mood to be a topic-killer. I think I'm in a pretty good position, given my experience with both Generations of the Series1 L67 and my experience and track time running with the Series 2'* to speak what I did in my above post.

HOWEVER....this has the potential to be a great topic. Debate me, discuss my points, or simply ask questions. There are myths and misunderstandings that need to be cleared up.
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:56 PM   #17
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i just have to agree with you Bill W....

My point of View along with another member (that will remain anoymus) are that both are great motors, and both of us have or have owned the Series one, and both own or have owned a Series 2....both have there great points....

its just easier for the Series 2 guys to go fast, and that is becasue of the GP and the W body scene. Now the fact is that the Series one was never used in a Performance Application (except in the Aussie land) we dont have the parts readily avaliable....well they are out there if you look.

as for the fact that you cant go fast with a S1 that is a uneducated claim...

the fastest(or quickest) S1 L67 has not had ANY internal work, now think about that one for one second....id like to see a Series 2 go that fast with out internal work...and if you look further a S2 L67 ran the EXACT same time over and Over as the S1, at the same track in the same conditions......interesting dont ya think???
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Old 09-20-2006, 12:03 AM   #18
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I got a question/ Are the series one and Series two the same block/heads?
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Old 09-20-2006, 12:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK94SSEi
I got a question/ Are the series one and Series two the same block/heads?
the Series 2 was a redesign over the Series 1
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Old 09-20-2006, 12:20 AM   #20
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I personally like the Ser 2. Not just cause I own it either. I wanted one ever since I rode in a S2 powered car 7 years ago. No S1 I have driven can even come close to the S2 in any catigory. Obviously this has been proven incorrect, but in my personal experience in was a great upgrade. For starters all S1 that I have known clatter at idle, not to mention the ones I see in public. All rattle like junkers. In NA models the 2.84 axle is a total waste. A 2.84 Ser 2 will waste a 2.84 Ser 1 off the line and the highway. The best Ser 1 is a 94-95 L67. They do perform well and do keep up with the Ser 2 in a quarter mile. BUT, when a Ser 1 hits 3rd gear it is DONE. Hence, the low trap speeds on the Ser 1. I'll give the Ser 1 cedit for a nice sound under WOT. I still like to get on the ol' 93' 88 for the sound even though it is prolly a mid 17 second car.
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