Moved to General Chat. This is a non-Mechanical topic...

I agree that many different measures rate the 3800 in the top in terms of quality (that'* why I bought the SSE), but this recurrent UIM/LIM problem in the L36 doesn't count as a factor? Much of the reading I did before choosing between the SSEi and GXP actually pointed the the Northstar as having fewer problems (that could be different from reliability, not sure) than the 3800, BUT I don't actually remember that I compared the "L67" to the "Northstar". I think I was looking at generic "3800" v. "Northstar". That could be the difference.

Regardless, it is a great day when your car decision is down to a choice between an SSEi and a GXP. Remember these days foundly when all that left is the G22 vs. G27 or whatever G number they have. It is sad that the Bonneville days of "performance with styling" are gone. Now all you get is Japanses "luxury" : expensive as hell with flat sheet metal and seats that cause immense back pain, **** that your four year old needs to turn for you and gauges that inspire puke.

Well, I looked at one GXP last week and after researching ads and carfax I had found the car originated in Michigan and had been for sale at 3 dealerships in St. Louis in the past year. That'* strange for a 2005 auto. It had 22K miles and they wanted $23K for it. I passed when I noticed one of the back wheels was brand new and the other 3 had road grime on the inside. The rear discs (both sides) were also brand new along with a stabilizer bar for the rear.
Saturday I looked at another about 40 miles from my home that only had 14K miles and the dealer wants $23K. This car originated from this dealership and the owner traded it last May but it has never resold. They started last May at $27K and are now asking $23K. I'm alittle scared about the demand for these cars and why someone would trade in a practically new car. You can still find unsold/untitled 2005'* on the internet at dealerships.
I really need reliability over speed and handling. I love Pontiacs but this purchase is for transportation not show or hobby. If the GXP is just a fickle, tempermental, show car, maybe I should look at something else. I can tell you, I have enough problems arguing with GM about my 04 Tahoe, and it has 100K warranty.

By the way, I'm not choosing between a GXP and SSEi. I have an older SSEi and want to buy a GXP, but don't feel they are reliable enough. I need a large sedan for my family, but want something sporty. The SSEi was perfect, but now it'* old.

I have had a host of problems with any Pontiac I've ever owned. Don't ever ask me about the 95 Grand Prix "special" edition. Reliability seems to be an issue for GM these days.

This issue for me is that I know how to do alot of work myself and they are BLOODY CHEAP to fix compared to other cars of their class. The GXPs just haven't been around long enough to know the long term problems. I had the two big ones fixed immediately while the car was still under warranty - the intermediate shaft (which I think is not unique to the GXP, right?) and the fog lights. I still may regret buying it, maybe not, who knows.

The best information on reliability can be found right here. Read through the posts and judge for yourself. Be warned, however, that even the fabled uber-reliable Toyota Camry has had problems. My mother'* 98 was a beast.

As to why there are many on lots and they are still expensive, I found out two things when researching GXP. They are about at the age where ALOT of them are coming back off of lease return. The dealers see the original $39,750 sticker price and think "hey this car is loaded up". I negotiated my price WAAAY down. I had done my homework and showed the dealer the five or six other very similar GXPs going for much less. That gets them every time. Plus mine had been on the lot for a while and they needed to move it.

I wouldn't buy one that had so many transactions. That is odd.

By the way, with cars - you'll never win. If you have found the perfect one, someone will ding your doors, tail-end you, or a tree will fall on it.

Don't forget to factor in the cost of repairs post-warranty. The Northstar is VERY expensive to work on in comparison to more conventional drivetrains.

FTR, I was offered a brand-new 2004 GXP with less than 100 miles of test-driving (25 of those were mine on two seperate occasions) for $19k.

The dealership had another 04 'reserved' and passed it to another dealership. The chose NOT to stock an 05, as the 04 never moved.

Just curious as to what is different that causes the added expense?

I still have time to buy the extended warranty and I am really unsure as to whether or no I should do it (04 GXP).

The engine design causes it to be more costly to work on. The Northstar is a DOHC engine, while the 3800 is traditional OHV style. I know many people that have worked on the Northstar, and they are a total pain to fix, and costly due to the more complicated setup.

Alot of good issues brought up and it'* really about styling and uniqueness. It'* about what draws a potential consumer to either car. And Will'* right about the seats, if I didnt like to drive with the seat half reclined I would have problems at 6'4" I have to admit that with 217,000 on an Olds3800 and running when I junked it and 176k and 124k on Buick 3800'* when I sold . The 3800 is very reliable. N*'* are very good at going till they die. The key issue between the two engines is, the 3800 is rebuiildable and the LD8 nearly impossible. Head Bolts snap, heads and block surfaces warp, and valve guides and seats in newer versions are power coated and ungrindable. I have also read that key rebuild components are even not available to rebuilders. it'* a smooth well running engine, But disposable in the end.


OK Will Wren A full second Time difference Between the two models unmodded, but thats not a far cry. Look who leads the pack at Drag Times...........

12.314* 110.740 7.883 89.300 1.798 87.0 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi 2000 Todd Allen

14.400* 100.000 9.400 80.000 2.300 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi 2000 Rob

14.610* 96.200 9.446 77.700 2.194 51.0 Pontiac Bonneville 40TH ANNIV ED SSEi 1997 Martin McCoy

14.898 94.950 9.610 74.910 2.293 79.0
Pontiac Bonneville SSEi 1998 Ryan McElroy

14.901* 91.550 9.590 72.100 2.225 50.0 Pontiac Bonneville SE 1995 Martin McCoy

15.180* 92.100 9.794 75.380 2.347 74.0 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi 1999 MJ

15.197 91.310 9.897 2.327 67.0
Pontiac Bonneville SSEi 1998 Goldring

15.300 105.000
Pontiac Bonneville ssei 2002 brian

15.400 91.000
Pontiac Bonneville GXP 2004 CD

15.948 87.520 10.320 69.050 2.471 73.0 Pontiac Bonneville SSE 1998 Martin McCoy

16.340 84.000
Pontiac Bonneville 1996 Josh Gill

Where did those numbers come from, John? It looks a bit out of date.