GM/Dex-Cool Class Action Update - Page 5 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


General GM Chat When starting new posts, please specify YEAR, MAKE, MODEL, ENGINE type, and whatever modifications you have made. Chat about all things GM (and related cars). Off-topic stuff should be in the Lounge, and all Model specific mechanical problems should be posted in the proper forum.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-05-2007, 02:03 PM   #41
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Custom88 is on a distinguished road
Default

No offense to anyone who thinks differently, but the whole Dexcool destroying engines and eating gaskets seemes like bull to me and here'* why. Listed above are a series of engines that have problems with their gaskets being destroyed causing leaks. If the problem were WITH DEXCOOL wouldn't you think that the problem would be happening on all GM vehicles since they run dexcool? But the problem isn't with all GM vehicles. The problem is with a certain series of engines that *just so happen* to use a very similar design of intake gasket. Other types of engines (namely non push-rod engines) aren't have any problems with their gaskets at all while being on dexcool. If you look, GM redesigned the intake gaskets to compensate for their lack quality, they didn't change the dexcool to compensate. Lets look at what'* being affected by Dexcool, not assume that it'* bad just because certain engines have engineering defects.
Custom88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2007, 02:09 PM   #42
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, Mi
Posts: 5,656
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Archon is on a distinguished road
Default

Actually, if you check further into it, GM did change the formulation for their Dex-Cool coolant.
Archon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2007, 02:15 PM   #43
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Custom88 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon
Actually, if you check further into it, GM did change the formulation for their Dex-Cool coolant.
Sorry, I needed to have clarified my previous statement a little more. I meant 'why didn't they get rid of Dexcool all together.' It still holds true though because the other GM engines aren't having these coolant problems like the 3.4, 3.8, etc etc.
Custom88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2007, 02:34 PM   #44
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, Mi
Posts: 5,656
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Archon is on a distinguished road
Default

To a large degree, you're right in that it was a combination of issues involved. Poor gasket design and the Dex. That doesn't pull Dex out of the equation though. Some of the combinations will make Dex an even larger issue, and leaking gaskets, exposing the Dex to air, which makes it much more corrosive and makes the affects appear more quickly.

GM started the Dex to give the customers what they wanted...a more maintenance free car, 5 year coolants, 100k miles plugs, etc. Ford and Chrysler did not jump onto that band wagon, but instead decided to do more investigation of what to use. They rejected the Dex, and went with the G05 type coolant that had been used without many issues in Europe - I believe Mercedes being a large user. It had several of the same helpful characteristics of Dex, (protection, less poisonous, long life) without the severe corrosive issues that could arise with Dex, especially when exposed to air.

What their corporate decisions may be regarding the continuing use of Dex can only be guessed at. My guess is that dumping Dex would be admitting their poor decision on it, and thus making certain that they would lose any court battle regarding it. The only thing that could change that would be if they could prove that the decision to change was to something "new and improved" that was a head & shoulders improvement over both Dex, and the G05 (all makes/all models) type coolants.
Archon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2007, 02:46 PM   #45
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 7,030
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
lash is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Custom88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon
Actually, if you check further into it, GM did change the formulation for their Dex-Cool coolant.
Sorry, I needed to have clarified my previous statement a little more. I meant 'why didn't they get rid of Dexcool all together.' It still holds true though because the other GM engines aren't having these coolant problems like the 3.4, 3.8, etc etc.
This is from the letter in the first post of this thread:
Quote:
...Multiple federal cases against GM were consolidated in the United States District Court, Southern District of Illinois. The proposed class presently includes all United States consumers who purchased or leased a 1995- 2004 GM vehicle that came factory-equipped with a 3.1-, 3.4-, 3.8-, or 4.3-Liter engine and Dex-Cool in any state other than California, Missouri and Texas (where related state cases are pending)...
Remember that, while there are a number of anecdotal episodes in this thread, the class action itself is based more on science and data, than emotions.

As the class action addresses DexCool, it most certainly does include the very engines you say are excluded from this problem...
lash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2007, 03:20 PM   #46
Retired Moderator
True Car Nut
 
Pearl_bonnie02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 3,047
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Pearl_bonnie02 is on a distinguished road
Default

I agree. Other engines and GM vehicles have the problem. My aunt'* 2000 Buick Century had a LIM Failure at 50,000 miles. My mom'* 1998 Firebird V6 has this problem now at 74,000 miles. My grandmothers 1996 Monte Carlo with 35,000 original miles on it now has this problem. Coinsedence?? I think not....
Pearl_bonnie02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2007, 03:30 PM   #47
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Custom88 is on a distinguished road
Default

Like I said, this is all occuring on vehicles with a SIMILAR gasket design.

The 3.1-, 3.4-, 3.8-, andr 4.3- are ALL pushrod engines with the same type of gasket. Are we forgetting about all the other GM engines that use this coolant? The Cadillac Northstar engines have no issues with the Dexcool, nor do even the GM four cylinders. It'* only the pushrod V6 engines that seem to be having this problem. We haven't had a single intake failure on a vehicle on the Aurora forums, only head gasket which is very rare, and that is only caused by the head bolts, NOT the gasket itself. Both of our 3800'* (one now sold) had the LIM gaskets leaking by 70 k miles. The 3.5 hasn't had any gasket issues of any kind with the same mileage.
Quote:
I agree. Other engines and GM vehicles have the problem. My aunt'* 2000 Buick Century had a LIM Failure at 50,000 miles. My mom'* 1998 Firebird V6 has this problem now at 74,000 miles. My grandmothers 1996 Monte Carlo with 35,000 original miles on it now has this problem. Coinsedence?? I think not.... Rolling Eyes
Buick Century= 3.1 V6. It'* on the list, and too has defective gaskets.
1998 FIrebird= 3.8 V6. We all know this engine first-hand has the gasket issue.
1996 Monte Carlo= 3.1 V6 OR 3.8 V6. again, both are on this list of engines affected.

This proves nothing other than yes, these engines are prone to this problem. Prove to me otherwise that other GM vehicles with a different kind of gasket design are having this problem.

My main point is this
If the coolant is the largest reason for these gasket failures, you'd be seeing ALL GM vehicles with DEXCOOL having these issues with gaskets deteriorating and having engine trouble, but that is NOT the case. The vehicles affected by this defect are all in the same 'family' of engines. Is that a coincidence ? I think not.
Custom88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2007, 04:11 PM   #48
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
banned3800 is on a distinguished road
Default

I have seen many engines from ford, Dodge.... GM and the like... Even on the 3100 I have seen failures with the green coolant on the intake gaskets, but the gaskets lived a lot longer on green then I have seen on the Dex.. Some of these are failing at 30k as opposed to 130k... The gaskets for all of the 3100M, 3100J, 3400 E are all plastic and all suck.. I have a friend and his sister in law has a 1995 Olds Cutlass with well over 160k on the 3100... Gaskets are original, we have yet to go into her motor... No coolant loss either...

I do feel that Dex is part of the cause, but not the whole problem... Who ever thought of sandwiching plastic gaskets between the intake manifold and the head/* should be shot

__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
banned3800 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2007, 07:51 PM   #49
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 7,030
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
lash is on a distinguished road
Default

Custom, let'* be honest with each other. You are changing your argument as we go. At first it was just pushrod engines you targeted as the culprit, not the Dex-gasket combination...

Quote:
...but the whole Dexcool destroying engines and eating gaskets seemes like bull to me and here'* why...
Then you argued it was only the 3.8, and not others...
Quote:
...It still holds true though because the other GM engines aren't having these coolant problems like the 3.4, 3.8, etc etc
.

Now, when it'* pointed out that those engines were indeed included in the suit, you get down to the meat of the subject. And here'* how it really breaks down.

Sure the "real" defect might not be the original Dex formula alone, It was much more likely the previously unknown combination of the plastic intake gasket and the Dex reaction over time with those gaskets.

OK, so it was discovered relatively soon after the Dex was introduced (it doesn't take long for some people to rack up 50-65,000 miles). What would a responsible car company do once it discovered it had a very broad problem it needed to address?

Accept responsibility and take immediate action to replace either the gaskets or the Dex in customer'* cars?

Or deny that any problem exists at all and continue along that path? At the same time, quietly changing the Dex formula to make it less caustic with time, working on designing a better and more durable LIM gasket to use when replacing them in customer'* cars (at the customer'* expense BTW), and always denying that any "problem" really existed.

So, we could debate all day and pull up supporting stories (not facts, mind you) and anecdotes to support either side, but in the end the REAL problem exists. It exists because GM chose denial and deceit instead of honesty and good public relations to "deal" with the issue.

The subject of the thread is dealing with one way, a legal way, to hold GM responsible for that deceit. Would you argue with that or agree that GM SHOULD be held responsible?

I have no bone to pick with you, but let'* just realize what this is truly about.

Cheers!
lash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2007, 08:25 PM   #50
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Bend, IN
Posts: 223
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BoneZ is on a distinguished road
Default

Some businesses aren't even using Dex anymore at all. The manager of the Jiffy Lube i had my car serviced at today said he already phased out Dex and doesn't use it anymore at all. He also said he was phasing all other coolants out except the universal and he said the universal is the only coolant they are going to use. He also said other places are doing this as well. Why keep a gazillion different types of coolants in the shop, when a universal coolant will work in most cars? It'* cheaper, more cost effective and more efficient to have just one type of coolant stocked instead of a gazillion different kinds. So, there ya go.
BoneZ is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dex-cool class action settlement Peej9089 General GM Chat 4 10-07-2008 11:26 PM
GM/Dex-Cool Class Action Update #3 lash General GM Chat 15 12-13-2007 08:50 PM
GM/Dex-Cool Class Action Update 2 lash General GM Chat 13 09-20-2007 08:15 AM
Intake maifold gasket class action! brianj General GM Chat 12 04-07-2006 04:11 PM
Investigation of Dex-Cool; potential class-action lawsuit big_news_1 General GM Chat 7 03-03-2006 08:37 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:10 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.