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Old 09-09-2004, 08:10 PM   #121
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You guys are missing MY point. That is the way I drive MY car. I don't drive it normally for long periods. It is always running cold in MY case. That'* is why I'm trying to maximize it'* performance for MY situation. I'm not tying anyones hands behind thier back. If you drive for longer periods of time where it is fully warmed up, this may not work for YOU. You see MY point now? An engine doesn't run at full efficiency until it'* warmed up. In my case, a CAI makes it take longer to warm up, and I only have 20mins at a time between my source and destination. I can only point out my observations. I'm not going to lengthen my driving time just to prove a point, because driving longer with no purpose except to warm up the engine is counteractive to my goal, to save gas.

I don't think everyone reading this message board is interested in maximum performance. Some are looking for maximum economy, so if you're looking for maximum performance, ignore my posts.
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:42 PM   #122
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Green, a CAI will have no effect on how long it takes your engine to warm up with regards to ECT. In fact, the stock airbox should be colder than a 'performance intake' setup.
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:49 PM   #123
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I just installed 2 diffent CAI configurations in the last week on my car. The first was a stock RSM CAI kit. With the shorter pipe it actually warmed up faster (just a hair) since it was pulling warmer engine air from the start. The second was the same kit, but an extended pipe to put the filter in the corner where I was able to box it in. At that point the engine heated up as normal. Withthe exception of the too short intake sucking in engie heat, I have had no change in engine temps or increases or decreases over my stock box setup. My $0.02
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Old 09-09-2004, 09:28 PM   #124
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Okay. Sorry to get snippy in my last post, but just to add some background to my testing, I recently took a trip to San Jose, a 500 mile trip. Driving the car at the same speeds, I got 25.5 MPG driving to San Jose, with only a couple stops. Driving back, same distance, same octane, but stopping many more times, you would think my mileage was worse because of all the stopping. I got 28.5MPG coming back. That'* more than 10% better. The biggest difference was two things. Going to San Jose, I drove on San Diego gas, and the temperature was in the mid 80'*. Coming back the temp was high 90'* for most of the trip, with San Jose gas. Now was the difference because San Jose gas is less oxygenated, or because of the higher temps? Since I don't really know, I thought, maybe the car ran more efficiently with higher temp, so I wanted to test for air temp.

I only know for sure, better flow means less resistance, thus more power and economy, but more oxygen (cold air) with identical flow will produce more power because PCM will add fuel to mix to the optimum oxygen fuel ratio. That will reduce MPG under equal conditions because you're burning more fuel. Now higher air temps may cause more timing retarding, so that may counteract the economic benefits of warmer air, causing more fuel to burn. All that said, it may be a wash. I'll know soon enough.
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Old 09-09-2004, 09:52 PM   #125
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Green... More then likely you had a headwind coming north and tailwind heading south. That is the weather pattern in this area as you went by Tracy which is where I grew up. I have been thinking on the colder denser charge theory your talking about. I am not sold on the greater O2 content of cold air. What I really think happens with a colder charge (and kinda goes back to the original topic of this thread) is that the pcm can add more timing because with a cold charge you have less pre-ignition or detonation. The only way to add O2 that I know of is forced induction or nitrous. I also understand that you are trying to improve "your" situation. It just needs to be pointed out as such because you talking of doing research and tests on it and people could come to the conclusion that it will work for them. Good luck in your hunt....
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Old 09-09-2004, 09:58 PM   #126
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Don't sweat no snippy here......this is one of the best debates we've had, and we'll all learn something from it. It'* starting to stray slightly off-topic, but let'* let that ride, since it is related to the octane idea.

This is a far-reaching topic. Octane and/or quality of gas can have far-reaching effects, even on what we may think are identical cars. Mods complicate things, as does climate obviously.

I do need to point out (as the head swells a bit) that I have one of the best-modded Series 1 L67'* here (I think only DrJay has me beat in that regard), yet I also have one of, if not THE most efficient Series 1 L67'* here.
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Old 09-09-2004, 10:06 PM   #127
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I'll pop in here and say that I probably have the most modded S2 motor next to BADSSEi and I still see upwards of 30mpg on the highway and low 20s in town. The car flows more air, makes more HP and the car requires less effort to maintain an RPM.
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Old 09-09-2004, 10:09 PM   #128
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You two outta get a room... back to the main topic please.
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Old 09-09-2004, 11:17 PM   #129
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Buzz, you nimrod. You'd like to see that, but the room would be so filled with tire smoke, you wouldn't see a thing.

DrJay! Get your butt back in here!

So the next question is, how the hell do you figure out how oxygenated your local gas is? And how much of an effect does that have? I'm hearing two stories here, and I'm uneducated. I wanna watch this one, and maybe learn from it.

I've done more octane testing then maybe anyone here, and I've run water injection, but there'* obviously alot I don't know.

Who wins? The scientists and theorists? Or the people with real-world experience? Can they BOTH be right?
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Old 09-09-2004, 11:23 PM   #130
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Question!
Where does elevation(how far up from sea-level) does come into play?
I dont remember how it works: higher elev. lower octane? or vice versa?
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