same here, it leaks out over about 6-10 years and you have to add some, if you car that you know of has never had some added then it may need some


o also if the AC isn't used for a long time like 2 years or something it make leak out faster cuz the seals dry up

I wouldn't call any leak "normal" even if it is common and not at all unusual. A "normal" and working system should be leak free. But reality is that they do tend to leak a little. AC systems that sit in buildings are pretty reliable, but stick one in a car and bounce it around day after day and leaks will happen.

I have definitely read that 134a systems in working order do not blow as cold as R12, so I really don't think that'* just a common misconception. But R134a should work very similarly to R12.

My AC doesn't feel very cold to me, and I just had it all checked and charged at my dealer. My wife'* 2001 Grand Prix GT feels much colder. Maybe there is some accepted variance in systems.

I think the 30 degree less than outside is a pretty good summary of a working system. But the hotter and more humid it is outside, the more difficult it is to pump heat extracted from your interior into the hot, humid outside. The cooler and dryer it is outside, the easier it is to pump extracted heat into into the outside. This is true with R12 systems too.

R-12 does run a little cooler than 134, but not a significant amount. Have you checked to make sure that you compressor is pulling in when it calls for a/c? The fan will still run when you turn the a/c on, but if the compressor doesn't pull in then it will just be blowing hot air.

I have the same problem with mine. It just doesn't seem like it has enough air flow. I'm not quite sure what causes that besides the supplies or the fan size?

Hello there,

I have a 1992 Bonneville with 176k and my A/C at 1800RPS is 28 degrees. This has been converted from R12 to R134a.

I converted it, vacuumed the system for 2 hrs to burn off any condensation in the system, then added the exact amount of R134a. I personally think it is colder with the R134a then it was before i broke the line that had R12 in it.

Good luck,
Sellncars

Make sure that your thermometer is in the center vent and your windows are open. I would definately suggest running a good vacuum pump on it before you add and freon, it really makes a difference.

Sellncars

Despite what others are saying, Bandit, you are correct in concept here, if not exactly i terms. It'* the term "leak" that'* the sticky point for some.

Through most of the '90s, there was a generally accepted standard "refrigerant loss" rate or "leak" rate that was the test standard for manufactured A/C lines. This rate was the equivalent of 1 lb. of refrigerant in 30 years or approx. 0.53333 ounces per year. This isn't to say that the systems were designed to leak, nor that you would always get a system that leaked, but there was an allowed rate that was tested to.

I say generally accepted because the BOC (Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac) Group of the early '90s maintained a requirement for a higher standard than that. It amounted to 1 lb of refrigerant in 100 years, or approximately 0.16 ounces per year.

These standards were set up to provide an affordable method to leak check the millions of A/C components produced each year. The methods for testing to even lower potential leak rates get exponentially more expensive per part as you go. Even though the intent and goal is zero leaks for all parts, any measurement method has a limited capability to test for leaks and that is where you get the potential for very slow leaks to exist in any given car.

Additionally, Bandit'* statement that an A/C system allowed to set for any long period of time will suffer from drying seals and therefore lose refrigerant at a faster rate, is true. In some very dry climates, as little as 6-12 months is sufficient to cause drying of various seals and O-rings.

Edit: Oh, and sellincars, I second the advantage of pulling a vacuum for at least 2 hours before recharging a system. It helps to dry out any lingering condensation or other ingresed moisture in a system. Even overnight is good if needed.

It really just has to do with how you feel and how hot/humid it is outside. Here recently I've started up the car to see 105 on the temp display and within the 30 mins drive home i've turned the A/C off completely because I'm freezing. Then other days when it'* maybe 90 when I start it up and I just can't get cooled down no matter what I do. Someone said to roll down your windows with the A/C running to get hot air out...this works wonders for me. Also, given aside all the technicalites people keep bringing up, your a/c is gonna leak coolant...almost a fact of life. That'* why as soon as the month of May hits you can all the sudden buy 8 different brands of A/C chargers. If they didn't leak commonly there wouldn't be a market for A/C chargers for the individual consumer, thus no one would see them and you'd HAVE to go to a specialist. It seems as though your system is running fine, maybe a little low of freon, but just do a little matinence on the system and you should be happy.