true turbo - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Forced Induction All questions and problems regarding Superchargers, Turbos, NOS, ZEX, intercoolers, water injection, etc.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-10-2008, 12:40 AM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
my1965marlin is on a distinguished road
Default true turbo

is it possible to turbo a non-supercharged bonnie(98 se 3800 series 2) with a true turbo not an e-turbo. just wonderning. one of my friends said it would b pretty cool just thought i wolud ask and see. if its possible what would i have todo to make it happen.
my1965marlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2008, 02:14 AM   #2
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wickliffe, Ohio
Posts: 2,155
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
McGrath is on a distinguished road
Default

It'* very possible, the biggest hurdle will probably be the cost for transmission upgrades and all the parts needed to make it work and work reliably. The transmission alone will run atleast $3'000.....


Ed
McGrath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2008, 02:52 AM   #3
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
my1965marlin is on a distinguished road
Default

k thanks. wat would i have to do to the trans?
my1965marlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2008, 06:43 AM   #4
Senior Member
Posts like a 4 Banger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 107
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
94_SSEi is on a distinguished road
Default

would he be able to put a tranny in from a ssei instead of building his up??
94_SSEi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2008, 07:48 AM   #5
DINOSAURUS BOOSTUS

Expert Gearhead
 
BillBoost37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Enfield, CT
Posts: 41,391
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of light
Default

I'm not sure how built up the trans would need to be as a turbo makes its power differently.

An SSEi trans could be used, although the only differences between the HD and Non-HD transmissions are the axle length, end housing, diff and a shaft. It'* very easy to upgrade w/o removing.
BillBoost37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2008, 06:04 PM   #6
Village Idiot
Posts like a Turbo
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 280
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iluvmybonnie is on a distinguished road
Default

If your not handy when it comes to working on your car do not try and turbo it. A turbo car requires alot of monitoring and problems solving. It is not like throwing on a pulley or intake and forgetting about it. Problems will occur and if you can't fix them yourself your gonna be spending alot of time and money at a repair shop who won't know what they are doing...

unless you know what your doing and can fab your looking at around 4k-5k+ for the turbo and tune alone. then your tranny will bust apart and you'll spend another 4k on a good built tranny. then you will have spent 10k that you can't afford to spend on the car, because lets face it if you had 10k to drop on a car you wouldn't be driving a 98se...not tying to be a downer but it'* the truth...

let me try to brake it down:
As with everything, there are many DIFFERENT kinds of parts out there. This is just a basic idea of what each part will cost. Your cost may vary, but this is close.
Turbo Used $300+ New $600+
Wastegate Used $50+ New $150+
Blow off valve Used $50+ New $150+
Intercooler Used $150+ New $250+
Piping for the Turbo $500-800+
Flanges for the turbo $50+
Exhaust (3'' cat back) $350+
Silicone pipe couplings $4+ each, expect to use 8 or more
T-bolt clamps $2 each from napa, expect 16 or more
Oil feed line and associated fittings $50+
Oil return line and associated fittings $80+ (this line is MUCH larger than the feed line, so it costs more)
FMU Used $30+ New $60+
Random Silicone lines for FMU $50
Boost Gauge Used $30+ New $115+
Turbo Timer Used $40+ New $80+
Upgraded Fuel Pump $100+
Injectors $400(depends on what you need...)

Now for those of you who are thinking this is cake, I did not factor in ANY LABOR.

Labor, dending on where you live is $70/hr to $100/hr. And if you want custom mandrel bent pipes, that increases the cost. The cost for having the pipes made and installed is in the neighborhood of $700 or more, depending on what you want for a turbo feed pipe.

And if you don't have a few days to install it, or the know how, add more money to the picture. And there are always things that "pop up", during the process.

The bottom line is, if you think you can do it for $3000 with used parts and taking shortcuts, it'* going to cost you more money down the road. You can install a turbo in about 2 days give or take if you know what you are doing. If you have the knowledge and the time, building your own turbo kit may not save you much money vs dropping in a SC motor/tranny, but you'll get EXACTLY what you want.

No after all of that you have to figure out how to tune it. then pay for the tune which you will have to do every time you change any component.

i'm not going to get into how much power your stock block can take. probably at most 9psi daily. possibly a bit more...

First and foremost, there is no 100% safe way to turbocharge a stock motor. Nissan engineers spent thousands of hours and millions of dollars designing and testing the stock motor to take all kinds of abuse and still run well and make power.

So by adding another 70-200 horsepower/torque to your engine, you have just surpassed the GM engineers wildest guess of what a stock motor will be producing. So all of the margins of safety and error they put into the motor to make it run well, you have just taken that away. Even 4 PSI, will put added wear and tear on your motor. I am not saying that it will only last 10,000 miles. I am making you aware that everything your thinking about doing will push your engine'* components much harder than anyone ever planned.

Last edited by iluvmybonnie; 08-19-2008 at 06:06 PM.
iluvmybonnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2008, 06:23 PM   #7
Village Idiot
Posts like a Turbo
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 280
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iluvmybonnie is on a distinguished road
Default

1. What Size turbo should I get?

There is no 1 answer or easy answer for this. It depends on a few major factors. The first being, the distance from the exhaust manifolds to the Turbo. It could be as short as 3 ft or as long as 7 ft. (Now if you do a Twin Turbo setup, things can change)

The 2nd is, what do you want to do with your car? Do you want the fastest 1/4 mile time possible? Or do you want total top end power? If your turbo is large, a TO4R with a .70 a/r compressor housing and a.96 a/r turbine housing is a large turbo for your application, it MAY NOT hit ANY boost until ~4000rpm. And full boost could be ~5000 rpm. So, that kind of power band is almost useless for a daily driver or a weekend 1/4 mile racer. On the flip side, a small turbo ( T3 with a compressor housing of .42 A/R and a turbine housing of .48 a/r ) may have 1lb of boost @ 1800 rpm. And it may reach full boost by ~2200 rpm. BUT, at some point BEFORE 6500 rpm, your turbo will reach a point when boost actually DROPS OFF. You really need to know how to read a COMPRESSOR MAP to aid in this.

This is a quote from Jay25 my friend who has a turbocharged 3l v6, i know it'* smaller than your 3.8 but it should give you a good idea:
"I got a T4 AR .81 turbine . That AR is pretty freaking huge. On the Freeway from a 3rd gear run that thing rocks. It pulls like a run away train. Great thats what I want. From a 2nd gear pull it sucks. From a dead stop you'll get owned by most of these small cars with small turbos. A Turbine AR between .58-.68 would be an ideal AR. I am going to go with a .58AR. I am going to see what type of difference that will make on my T04E BB turbo. During the winter time is awesome. There is far more research I have to do to match up a perfect setup. I am a big time Freeway runner and track runner. I have to take this to the track and see what it does with the .81 AR. A good comparison is Bags T3 .58 AR Turbine vs my T4 .81 AR Turbine(both 3l v6s). He woops my Azzzz from a dead stop. Car is very fast the minute he gets on it. Mad props to his setup which has instant boost the min he slams the pedal to the metal. On the freeway he will pull on me instantly once again, but I reel him in within 5 secs or less and keep on pulling."



How do I read a compressor MAP you ask as that will be a BIG deal about which turbo you decide to go with(which you'll never do but i'm bored)? some links:

http://www.turbocalculator.com/how-to-read.html
http://www.mygen.com/users/dbruce/my...sor%20Maps.htm
Stealth 316 - Turbocharger Compressor Flow Maps
Stealth 316 - Air/Fuel Flow Calculators

Also good reading, Corky Bell'* book Maximum Boost. It can be found on amazon.com

It should take you through your own research and talking with several members of this board, about a WEEK to figure out what turbo best suited what you want to do. So it'* not a knee jerk operation. A NEW turbo will cost you ~$800, so measure twice, buy once.
iluvmybonnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 12:20 PM   #8
Village Idiot
Posts like a Turbo
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 280
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iluvmybonnie is on a distinguished road
Default

my1965marlin: if you have any questions feel free to pm me. i would be happy to help you in your turbo project.

Last edited by iluvmybonnie; 09-10-2008 at 12:34 PM.
iluvmybonnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2008, 03:43 PM   #9
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ashland, Ohio
Posts: 423
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
jgs11 is on a distinguished road
Default

check this out too -->ZZ Performance
jgs11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2009, 12:13 PM   #10
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 259
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bigbadbonneville is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvmybonnie View Post
If your not handy when it comes to working on your car do not try and turbo it. A turbo car requires alot of monitoring and problems solving. It is not like throwing on a pulley or intake and forgetting about it. Problems will occur and if you can't fix them yourself your gonna be spending alot of time and money at a repair shop who won't know what they are doing...

unless you know what your doing and can fab your looking at around 4k-5k+ for the turbo and tune alone. then your tranny will bust apart and you'll spend another 4k on a good built tranny. then you will have spent 10k that you can't afford to spend on the car, because lets face it if you had 10k to drop on a car you wouldn't be driving a 98se...not tying to be a downer but it'* the truth...

let me try to brake it down:
As with everything, there are many DIFFERENT kinds of parts out there. This is just a basic idea of what each part will cost. Your cost may vary, but this is close.
Turbo Used $300+ New $600+
Wastegate Used $50+ New $150+
Blow off valve Used $50+ New $150+
Intercooler Used $150+ New $250+
Piping for the Turbo $500-800+
Flanges for the turbo $50+
Exhaust (3'' cat back) $350+
Silicone pipe couplings $4+ each, expect to use 8 or more
T-bolt clamps $2 each from napa, expect 16 or more
Oil feed line and associated fittings $50+
Oil return line and associated fittings $80+ (this line is MUCH larger than the feed line, so it costs more)
FMU Used $30+ New $60+
Random Silicone lines for FMU $50
Boost Gauge Used $30+ New $115+
Turbo Timer Used $40+ New $80+
Upgraded Fuel Pump $100+
Injectors $400(depends on what you need...)

Now for those of you who are thinking this is cake, I did not factor in ANY LABOR.

Labor, dending on where you live is $70/hr to $100/hr. And if you want custom mandrel bent pipes, that increases the cost. The cost for having the pipes made and installed is in the neighborhood of $700 or more, depending on what you want for a turbo feed pipe.

And if you don't have a few days to install it, or the know how, add more money to the picture. And there are always things that "pop up", during the process.

The bottom line is, if you think you can do it for $3000 with used parts and taking shortcuts, it'* going to cost you more money down the road. You can install a turbo in about 2 days give or take if you know what you are doing. If you have the knowledge and the time, building your own turbo kit may not save you much money vs dropping in a SC motor/tranny, but you'll get EXACTLY what you want.

No after all of that you have to figure out how to tune it. then pay for the tune which you will have to do every time you change any component.

i'm not going to get into how much power your stock block can take. probably at most 9psi daily. possibly a bit more...

First and foremost, there is no 100% safe way to turbocharge a stock motor. Nissan engineers spent thousands of hours and millions of dollars designing and testing the stock motor to take all kinds of abuse and still run well and make power.

So by adding another 70-200 horsepower/torque to your engine, you have just surpassed the GM engineers wildest guess of what a stock motor will be producing. So all of the margins of safety and error they put into the motor to make it run well, you have just taken that away. Even 4 PSI, will put added wear and tear on your motor. I am not saying that it will only last 10,000 miles. I am making you aware that everything your thinking about doing will push your engine'* components much harder than anyone ever planned.
Totally Agree on this one - I think hes going over his head in trying to put a turbo, into something he just put a supercharger on with less headaches. A series II with a ported M90 and intercooler and an Intense PCM and Thrasher exhaust headers and magnaflow exhaust system, cool air intake system would be cheaper. If he wants to go all out - just get stage II heads and a bigger cam and bigger high flow fuel injectors along with all the others and he should get a better and cheaper result without the headaches.
bigbadbonneville is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Turbo L67 Ciera International.....and Turbo L36 S10 Bonneville92V688 Lounge 10 10-05-2007 03:43 PM
Is this true????????????????/ ssesc93 Lounge 12 07-10-2003 11:34 PM
For All the Ladies...so true! Tamara Lounge 17 07-10-2003 02:56 AM
911 Twin Turbo vs. me w/ only ONE turbo Burgundy_Boat General GM Chat 11 06-28-2003 09:34 PM
The "True" performance muffler Allmachtige Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning 17 03-05-2003 11:56 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:37 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.