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Forced Induction All questions and problems regarding Superchargers, Turbos, NOS, ZEX, intercoolers, water injection, etc.

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Old 02-11-2006, 12:49 PM   #1
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I recently traded in my 94 SE for a 93 SSEi. The SSEI would not idle right. I could hear a vacuum leak from the EGR tube where it met the supercharger. Noticed antifreeze in the oil so pulled the blower and intake to replace the gaskets. Upon removing the throttle body air cleaner tubing I noticed antifreeze leaking out of the front of the throttle body through the MAF screen. There was also antifreeze laying in the supercharger behind the throttle body. Pulled the supercharger and found more antifreeze laying inside the intake. Noticed the rotors in the supercharger where epoxy coated which they shouldn't be on a 93. Also noticed the one bolt holding down the supercharger to the intake behind the throttle body was too long and someone had added 1" of spacers under it. Swapped out all gaskets and when I reassemble the topend I noticed the EGR hose was too small for the hole in the supercharger. Used a piece of gasket and red silicone to seal the vacuum leak. I decided I must have a 94-95 M62 mounted on a 93. When I went to reinstall the throttlebody the gasket was way too small compared to the hole in the supercharger. The coolant passages in the 93 throttle body gasket do not match the passages in the 94-95 supercharger which is why I was getting antifreeze into the supercharger. Purchased a complete throttlebody from a 94 or 95 to match the supercharger. Now the car would start, run for a few seconds, and die. It did not want to stay running until it warmed up. Checked my fuel pressure and it was 40 at idle, 47 under load. Installed new temp sensor, IAC, and air cleaner sensor but still had problems with idle when cold. When I installed the newer throttle body I also reused the MAF from the 93 because it looked new. Swapped out the MAF with the one that came with the 94-95 throttle body and all my idle problems went away. I have since driven the car 600 miles and it idles fine with no AFC. When fully warmed up it idles smooth at 800 rpm. Seems to run fine at higher rpm but I don't have a way to check for KR. Not sure what injectors are in the car but everything looks stock. Were the injectors the same for the 93-95 SSEi'*?

Tom
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Old 02-11-2006, 01:00 PM   #2
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Injectors were the same. A big warning here, stay out of wide open throttle. I can almost gaurantee you that you have KR on the top end, even perhaps with a stock 2.8" 94/95 pulley Please measure that to see if it'* 2.8 or 2.5".

Someone did indeed put the wrong one on your car. Did you notice the decreased clearance from the upper throttle cable attachement to the bracket? VERY close now?

Your stock PCM is not designed to be able to manage the increased airflow of the more efficient Gen3 supercharger and larger throttle body. You may be close to ok with a stock pulley for now. As you can see from this topic, you're now at ground zero on this idea.

Those of us with modified cars and scantools are still sorting out the problems you'd only know you had if you had a scantool. Drive easy for now until we know more.
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Old 02-11-2006, 03:15 PM   #3
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It still has the 2.8" pulley on it for now. Was thinking about going to the smaller 92-93 pulley in the future. I've had it to WOT before and it only has about 5-6 lbs of boost. Some of the rotor coating is gone possibly from the antifreeze it ingested or due to mileage as I also had to put a coupling in it so the supercharger does have some miles on it. If it is pinging will the pcm also limit boost when it retards the timing? What size are the stock injectors? I was planning on going to a larger injector when I do drop the pulley size.
Yes, I did notice the clearance problem with the throttle cable. I clamped a vise grip onto the bracket and bent the corner out enough so the throttle wouldn't bind.

Tom
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Old 02-11-2006, 03:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thdrant
It still has the 2.8" pulley on it for now. Was thinking about going to the smaller 92-93 pulley in the future. I've had it to WOT before and it only has about 5-6 lbs of boost. Some of the rotor coating is gone possibly from the antifreeze it ingested or due to mileage as I also had to put a coupling in it so the supercharger does have some miles on it. If it is pinging will the pcm also limit boost when it retards the timing? What size are the stock injectors? I was planning on going to a larger injector when I do drop the pulley size.
Yes, I did notice the clearance problem with the throttle cable. I clamped a vise grip onto the bracket and bent the corner out enough so the throttle wouldn't bind.

Tom
Don't plan on pulleying until J Wikoff and I get all the problems sorted out. This isn't a plug and play as someone before you thought. We should know ALL the answers and have an upgrade guide written by early spring.

The epoxy coating on the rotors is where the efficiency of the Gen 3 94/95 Eaton blower comes from. The loss of coating is killing your efficiency. The whole idea is closer tolerances without the possibility of rotor clash. In order to regain that lost boost, you'd have to spin it faster, which causes more heat and loss of another type of efficiency. If you plan on keeping this setup long-term, I suggest getting a replacment supercharger with better rotors. Recoating is an option through www.canadiansupercharger.com and I don't recall the cost, but it'* posted on the forum somewhere. (Blitzbird post in Forced Induction?).

You don't need to change your injectors for a smaller pulley. There'* no performance to be gained by that. Not on the Series 1 L67, anyway.

Long-term on that throttle bracket, try to find one from a 94/95 and replace yours.
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Old 02-11-2006, 03:34 PM   #5
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SInce he had the issues with the MAF senson, might that suggest the computer was changed also? I would think if the stock 93 computer was in there, it would use the stock 93 MAF just fine and have issues with the 94-95 MAF, not the other way around as he describes.
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Old 02-11-2006, 03:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyFloyd
SInce he had the issues with the MAF senson, might that suggest the computer was changed also? I would think if the stock 93 computer was in there, it would use the stock 93 MAF just fine and have issues with the 94-95 MAF, not the other way around as he describes.
I seriously doubt the computer was changed. This looks like a case of OOPS rather than ON PURPOSE. There are other issues here. The 94/95 PCM wouldn't know what to do with the 93 O2 sensor for instance.

Jwikoff can get his car to idle with the 94/95 MAF also.
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Old 02-11-2006, 04:01 PM   #7
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Alot of people assumed because the appearance of the supercharger and TB LOOKS the same, that it is..obviously, it sure isnt.
Lots of bugs to work out from this set up it seems..
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Old 02-13-2006, 06:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
www.canadiansupercharger.com will Teflon Coat for an $80 up-charge. It'* not the same epoxy coating they had OEM, but it is proven to last.

If you sent your assembly to them, it would be the cost of bearings/seals plus 80. I spoke with them about this yesterday.
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Old 02-13-2006, 07:42 PM   #9
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Thank you sir.
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