GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat
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GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat (https://www.gmforum.com/)
-   Forced Induction (https://www.gmforum.com/forced-induction-105/)
-   -   Split from "epoxy coating on supercharger" (https://www.gmforum.com/forced-induction-105/split-epoxy-coating-supercharger-247274/)

bigbadbonneville 11-29-2006 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by willwren
You don't have epoxy coating on your rotors, bigbad. That started in 1994 with the Gen3 M62. You have a Gen2.

Don't use ANYTHING on the rotors unless you're planning on replacing your needle bearings. Anything you spray in there will eat away at the grease in the needle bearings.
Okay thank you but I have a 1995 Supercharger on mine and not the 1993. I have the 1993 pulley on it aswell. Is there really a big difference in 1993 to a 1995 pulley?

willwren 11-29-2006 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by bigbadbonneville
Originally Posted by willwren
You don't have epoxy coating on your rotors, bigbad. That started in 1994 with the Gen3 M62. You have a Gen2.

Don't use ANYTHING on the rotors unless you're planning on replacing your needle bearings. Anything you spray in there will eat away at the grease in the needle bearings.
Okay thank you but I have a 1995 Supercharger on mine and not the 1993. I have the 1993 pulley on it aswell. Is there really a big difference in 1993 to a 1995 pulley?
That's all very interesting. How are you managing the fact that your PCM has no idea what to do with the MAF sensor signal? Are you running an AFC controller? Something else? This isn't a 'bolt-on' swap by any stretch. Have you even scanned it to see how much is wrong?

bigbadbonneville 11-29-2006 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by willwren
Originally Posted by bigbadbonneville
Originally Posted by willwren
You don't have epoxy coating on your rotors, bigbad. That started in 1994 with the Gen3 M62. You have a Gen2.

Don't use ANYTHING on the rotors unless you're planning on replacing your needle bearings. Anything you spray in there will eat away at the grease in the needle bearings.
Okay thank you but I have a 1995 Supercharger on mine and not the 1993. I have the 1993 pulley on it aswell. Is there really a big difference in 1993 to a 1995 pulley?
That's all very interesting. How are you managing the fact that your PCM has no idea what to do with the MAF sensor signal? Are you running an AFC controller? Something else? This isn't a 'bolt-on' swap by any stretch. Have you even scanned it to see how much is wrong?
I'm really not sure, the dealership is the one that has it all hooked up for me, it seems to run fine. I just wanted to change the intake gasket on but it did ran good.

1993 SLE 11-29-2006 03:49 PM
seems odd for a dealer to make that type of mistake.....can we get a pic, just confirm

J Wikoff 11-29-2006 03:53 PM
If they used the 93 TB, it would be ok-ish. I'd like to know what is going on with KR and fueling, though.

bigbadbonneville 11-29-2006 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by 1993 SLE
seems odd for a dealer to make that type of mistake.....can we get a pic, just confirm
I will get some pics but I still dont know how to do that. Not sure if I'm doing it right but I've tried putting pics on here but I seem to have troubles and yes it is using the 1993 TB. just the supercharger itself is the 1995.

Bonneville92V688 11-29-2006 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by bigbadbonneville
Originally Posted by 1993 SLE
seems odd for a dealer to make that type of mistake.....can we get a pic, just confirm
I will get some pics but I still dont know how to do that. Not sure if I'm doing it right but I've tried putting pics on here but I seem to have troubles and yes it is using the 1993 TB. just the supercharger itself is the 1995.
How can you be using a Gen2 TB on a Gen3 SC? The Gen2 TB is much smaller.... I am very perplexed... :?

bigbadbonneville 11-29-2006 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by Bonneville94V688
Originally Posted by bigbadbonneville
Originally Posted by 1993 SLE
seems odd for a dealer to make that type of mistake.....can we get a pic, just confirm
I will get some pics but I still dont know how to do that. Not sure if I'm doing it right but I've tried putting pics on here but I seem to have troubles and yes it is using the 1993 TB. just the supercharger itself is the 1995.
How can you be using a Gen2 TB on a Gen3 SC? The Gen2 TB is much smaller.... I am very perplexed... :?
I dont know, the Dealership is the one that did this and not sure how they did it but it looks the same to me.

J Wikoff 11-29-2006 04:29 PM
Same bolt pattern. The coolant ports will be misaligned, and the diameter step is kinda severe causing turbulance.

bigbadbonneville 11-29-2006 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by J Wikoff
Same bolt pattern. The coolant ports will be misaligned, and the diameter step is kinda severe causing turbulance.
Do you think maybe the dealership just took the parts off the 1995 and put into my 1993 case, like the front nose and rotors?

1993 SLE 11-29-2006 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by bigbadbonneville
Originally Posted by J Wikoff
Same bolt pattern. The coolant ports will be misaligned, and the diameter step is kinda severe causing turbulance.
Do you think maybe the dealership just took the parts off the 1995 and put into my 1993 case, like the front nose and rotors?
no the rotors are different, but the Nose is the same...the casing is different between the 92-93 and the 94-95

does your SC look like this
https://i5.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/7a/0b/7775_1.JPG

or this
http://superchargedv6.com/ebay/2.jpg

can you see the difference in the Case??

bigbadbonneville 11-29-2006 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by 1993 SLE
Originally Posted by bigbadbonneville
Originally Posted by J Wikoff
Same bolt pattern. The coolant ports will be misaligned, and the diameter step is kinda severe causing turbulance.
Do you think maybe the dealership just took the parts off the 1995 and put into my 1993 case, like the front nose and rotors?
no the rotors are different, but the Nose is the same...the casing is different between the 92-93 and the 94-95

does your SC look like this
https://i5.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/7a/0b/7775_1.JPG

or this
[img]http://superchargedv6.com/ebay/2.jpg[/img
can you see the difference in the Case??
I cant seem to see what the second photo looks like but from the Top the photo they both look like that my 93 and 95?

willwren 11-29-2006 05:14 PM
I have a few superchargers at home. I'll put a Gen2 and a Gen3 side by side when I get home to point out the obvious 2 differences in the cases.

bigbadbonneville 11-29-2006 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by 1993 SLE
Originally Posted by bigbadbonneville
Originally Posted by J Wikoff
Same bolt pattern. The coolant ports will be misaligned, and the diameter step is kinda severe causing turbulance.
Do you think maybe the dealership just took the parts off the 1995 and put into my 1993 case, like the front nose and rotors?
no the rotors are different, but the Nose is the same...the casing is different between the 92-93 and the 94-95

does your SC look like this
https://i5.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/7a/0b/7775_1.JPG

or this
http://superchargedv6.com/ebay/2.jpg

can you see the difference in the Case??
;Sorry Now I can see it, the bottom one looks like my 1993 and the top one looks similar to the one thats on my car now.

bigbadbonneville 11-29-2006 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by willwren
I have a few superchargers at home. I'll put a Gen2 and a Gen3 side by side when I get home to point out the obvious 2 differences in the cases.
thank you Wilwren and also great weblinks and supercharger page. I did look at that. also did you know that our Throttle bodys are made in japan by Hitachi? LMFAO, I just looked underneith the 1995 TB on the self and saw it

willwren 11-29-2006 05:25 PM
Notice how the cooling fins go all the way to the base on the Gen2, but not on the Gen3? One of the pedestals for the bolts to mount it to the LIM on the TB end is shorter on the Gen3 than the Gen2 also.

bigbadbonneville 11-29-2006 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by willwren
Notice how the cooling fins go all the way to the base on the Gen2, but not on the Gen3? One of the pedestals for the bolts to mount it to the LIM on the TB end is shorter on the Gen3 than the Gen2 also.
Yes I do now see it. uhmm I dont know how they did this but they do have the one that is pictured on the top one on my car now and the one on the bottom looks like the one they gave back to me. (dealership)

willwren 11-29-2006 05:32 PM
I'll post some pics tonight to make sure for you.

willwren 11-29-2006 10:54 PM
2 Attachment(s)
The definitive identification guide for Gen2 (92/93) and Gen3 (94/95) M62 Eaton Superchargers:

This is the 'foot' directly BEHIND the throttle body/inlet when facing the engine from the front. Measure the height. On the left is the Gen2 (92/93) on the right is the Gen3 (94/95):
Attachment 56735

Now the cooling fins. Notice how the Gen2 (92/93) fins on the LEFT supercharger extend all the way to the base? And the Gen3 (94/95) go only partway down:
https://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/compare2.jpg

Inlet comparison with the Gen2 (92/93) on the left and Gen3 (94/95) on the right:
Attachment 56736

The other telltale sign is the EGR inlet port. The Gen2 (92/93) is 0.5", and the Gen3 (94/95) is .625" (5/8").

Now which one do you have?

J Wikoff 11-29-2006 11:02 PM
That first pic is a little misleading. The two places you should be comparing is the 1 1/8" tall part on the Gen 3 where the ruler is touching it and the part of the Gen 2 that is bare metal closest to the camera.

willwren 11-29-2006 11:06 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Correctamundo, to my fellow expertdude.

The Gen2 horizontal line about 0.4" JUST TO THE LEFT of the ruler.
The Gen3 horizontal line JUST TO THE RIGHT of the ruler.

The superchargers are rotated to have this 'foot' on each next to each other, as you see in the SECOND pic above.

Attachment 56733

J Wikoff 11-29-2006 11:11 PM
The ruler is not touching the same spot on both.

harofreak00 11-29-2006 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by J Wikoff
The ruler is not touching the same spot on both.
bingo.. bill.. take 2 identical pics, and ill layer em on top of eachother to show the difference

u drinking? :lol:

willwren 11-29-2006 11:18 PM
I'm drinking. John and Andrew are right. :lol:

Compare the height of the Gen2 JUST TO THE LEFT OF THE RULER to the height of the Gen3 at the FAR RIGHT OF THE PIC.

Fuck you guys.

J Wikoff 11-29-2006 11:20 PM
Or... just to the right of the ruler and far to the left of the ruler (it gets a little fuzzy to the left).

bigbadbonneville 11-30-2006 01:16 AM
Originally Posted by J Wikoff
Or... just to the right of the ruler and far to the left of the ruler (it gets a little fuzzy to the left).
Now those are great pictures and great info for people looking to see differences in both the 92/93 vs 94/95 superchargers. I still dont understand how the dealership adopted this 94/95 to my 1993 ssei. The one that has the long finned caseing is in my car and the one that I have sitting on my shelves next to my tool box looks like the caseing goes half way (I guess that is the one that orginally came with my car) in which the dealership gave back to me. Do you think that they changed the top end of my engine to a 1994/95. Like the LIM, TB, PCM, EGR and all the sensors? to make it all work.

bigbadbonneville 11-30-2006 01:44 AM
Originally Posted by willwren
The definitive identification guide for Gen2 (92/93) and Gen3 (94/95) M62 Eaton Superchargers:

This is the 'foot' directly BEHIND the throttle body/inlet when facing the engine from the front. Measure the height. On the left is the Gen2 (92/93) on the right is the Gen3 (94/95):
https://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/compare1.jpg

Now the cooling fins. Notice how the Gen2 (92/93) fins on the LEFT supercharger extend all the way to the base? And the Gen3 (94/95) go only partway down:
https://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/compare2.jpg

Inlet comparison with the Gen2 (92/93) on the left and Gen3 (94/95) on the right:
https://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/compare3.jpg

The other telltale sign is the EGR inlet port. The Gen2 (92/93) is 0.5", and the Gen3 (94/95) is .625" (5/8").

Now which one do you have?
From the looks of the back end of the superchargers. The one on the left is the same as my supercharger with the long fins and is the same as the one with the fins that go halfway. Both my superchargers have the same back end that bolts to the TB. But none of the 2 that I have look anything on the right of your picture. Due to the fact of the small hole next to the Inlet of the TB and that TB looks alot larger then both of which I have. The small hole next to the TB on your picture is for the 94/95, but on Both of my Superchargers they are larger like the one on the left of your picture and I do have both caseings one that has the fins that go halfway and one that goes all they way down, like on these pictures you have. I'am so confused now. Do I have a hybrid supercharger on my hands for a later 1993 that is the same as 1994?

BillBoost37 11-30-2006 07:27 AM
Originally Posted by bigbadbonneville
The one that has the long finned caseing is in my car and the one that I have sitting on my shelves next to my tool box looks like the caseing goes half way, which the dealership gave back to me.
If this statement is correct, the casing with fins all the way down (92/93) is on your car, and the (94/95) casing with fins only partway is on your shelf.

This means your car has the 92/93 supercharger and throttle body on it. Which would allow it to run and function properly with the current PCM.

Originally Posted by willwren
Now the cooling fins. Notice how the Gen2 (92/93) fins on the LEFT supercharger extend all the way to the base? And the Gen3 (94/95) go only partway down:
https://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/compare2.jpg

willwren 11-30-2006 08:44 AM
Correct. Your dealership misinformed you, and you actually have the correct part on your car. Unless you can call the dealer and have them look up the ticket on the repair for a better description, we may never understand the misunderstanding.

bigbadbonneville 11-30-2006 11:55 AM
Originally Posted by bigbadbonneville
Originally Posted by willwren
The definitive identification guide for Gen2 (92/93) and Gen3 (94/95) M62 Eaton Superchargers:

This is the 'foot' directly BEHIND the throttle body/inlet when facing the engine from the front. Measure the height. On the left is the Gen2 (92/93) on the right is the Gen3 (94/95):
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...n/compare1.jpg

Now the cooling fins. Notice how the Gen2 (92/93) fins on the LEFT supercharger extend all the way to the base? And the Gen3 (94/95) go only partway down:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...n/compare2.jpg

Inlet comparison with the Gen2 (92/93) on the left and Gen3 (94/95) on the right:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...n/compare3.jpg isnt the one on the left the 94/95 and the one on the right is the 92/93, The question I have is the TB Opening is larger on a 92/93 or is the opening for the TB Larger on the 94/95.

The other telltale sign is the EGR inlet port. The Gen2 (92/93) is 0.5", and the Gen3 (94/95) is .625" (5/8").

Now which one do you have?
From the looks of the back end of the superchargers. The one on the left is the same as my supercharger with the long fins and is the same as the one with the fins that go halfway. Both my superchargers have the same back end that bolts to the TB. But none of the 2 that I have look anything on the right of your picture. Due to the fact of the small hole next to the Inlet of the TB and that TB looks alot larger then both of which I have. The small hole next to the TB on your picture is for the 94/95, but on Both of my Superchargers they are larger like the one on the left of your picture and I do have both caseings one that has the fins that go halfway and one that goes all they way down, like on these pictures you have. I'am so confused now. Do I have a hybrid supercharger on my hands for a later 1993 that is the same as 1994?

BillBoost37 11-30-2006 12:42 PM
BigBad..

Your car has the 92/93 supercharger on it. That is an M62 Gen 2.

The fins tell it all, you don't have a hybrid. No "hybrids" were ever produced. The mechanics would have done what they had to in order to get the motor working with the least effort possible for it to work correctly.

Look up your repair ticket.
Under gaskets, Lower intake, supercharger to lower intake and throttle body will be among the listing. If they had not changed the top end over to your 93 part, those gaskets would not be there.

willwren 11-30-2006 01:07 PM
Bigbad. As the other Bill stated above, if it looks like the one on the left, it's a Gen2 92/93 supercharger as it should be. Period. End of story.

If you'd like to settle this once and for all, take pics of them and host them on www.photobucket.com then post the pics here.

bigbadbonneville 11-30-2006 02:52 PM
Originally Posted by willwren
Bigbad. As the other Bill stated above, if it looks like the one on the left, it's a Gen2 92/93 supercharger as it should be. Period. End of story.

If you'd like to settle this once and for all, take pics of them and host them on www.photobucket.com then post the pics here.
Yes, Bill boost is correct, I did look at the ticket and they did replace the lower intake, all gaskets and even the TB with all sensors attached and thats why it cost me over 1200 dollars including labor which explains why mine has epoxy coated rotors. Thank you and everyone for all explanatory information and pics to guide me to what I need and also in ordering the correct intake manifold gasket and TB gasket to do my gasket replacements. One more question, sorry to be a pain in the arsh are the rotors for 92/93 and 94/95 interchangable to each other?

J Wikoff 11-30-2006 03:21 PM
Yes they are. How do you know you have epoxy coated rotors?

bigbadbonneville 11-30-2006 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by J Wikoff
Yes they are. How do you know you have epoxy coated rotors?
. It looks like the rotors are black and the edges of the rotors are shiny silver almost chrome like, it doesnt look like carbon build up because the edges of the rotors are like a perfect line.

J Wikoff 11-30-2006 03:32 PM
The epoxy is grey. I've seen both types and they both end up pretty dark.

bigbadbonneville 11-30-2006 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by J Wikoff
The epoxy is grey. I've seen both types and they both end up pretty dark.
okay and so the 92/93 and the 94/95 rotors can interchange between the 2 with the same cases with no rear bearing problems or height differences internally. Man ya all been very great in giving out information and directing us in the right direction. thank ya for all the troubles : :D

1993 SLE 11-30-2006 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by bigbadbonneville
Originally Posted by J Wikoff
The epoxy is grey. I've seen both types and they both end up pretty dark.
okay and so the 92/93 and the 94/95 rotors can interchange between the 2 with the same cases with no rear bearing problems or height differences internally. Man ya all been very great in giving out information and directing us in the right direction. thank ya for all the troubles : :D
whoa....the I dont believe that you can change the rotors from year to year....the 92-93 DONT HAVE coated rotors, never did never will....the 94-95 DO have the coated rotors

the size of the case is different and the coated rotors are larger i believe....they will not fit into the 92-93 case

the rotors are black becasue the EGR is routed thru the SC for combustion temps...because the EGR stove pipe basically has exhaust going thru to makes the SC black on the inside.....

you have 92-93 non coated rotors in a 92-93 SC

willwren 11-30-2006 04:15 PM
Pat just nailed it BigBad. ALL rotors are dark after use. You have carbon buildup on stock rotors. NOt epoxy coating.

J Wikoff 11-30-2006 04:39 PM
Who has tried the gen 3 rotors in the gen 2 case? I thought they would fit because the coating is gone off the tips anyway after a short while.


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