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Old 03-15-2005, 08:09 PM   #1
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Default LN3 series 1 to S1 supercharged - Olds Trofeo

I want to say that I was refered to your forum through a olds forum. I must say that a lot of knowledge resides here.
My main goal is to swap a supercharged engine into my daily driven 1990 Oldsmobile Trofeo(Toronado) with a LN3 engine. The car will not built to be fast but rather to have a different fun combo...I have a V8 Sonoma for that and planning to buy an SS this summer/Fall. I know that this topis is slightly different than your Pontiacs but i think alot of the info is the same.
I'm mechanically inclined(Associates in Heavy Equipment Technology, Bachelors in Auto Heavy Equip. Managment, Certified in High Performance Machining, Certified in High Performacne Engines, ASE certified) so i dont have a problem working with things or taking on projects.
What I want to find out is what it will take to put the series 1 */c engine in and make it run. I know that in the series 2 family the n/a and */c are completely different; I'm having a hard time finding corolating info about the series 1. In May I rebuilt the engine and transmission; I want to know what I can use from this set-up(engine) with a */c engine. I know that many of the parts may be the same and that others are */c specific. I also lack information regarding the wiring and computer controls. I wonder if I can modify my harness or start fresh with a */c harness. Also I do not know the specific limit of controls my current ECM is responsible for. The Trofeo has many electrical entinites and the BCM controls most of them, hopefully I can run the engine without losing many features of the car.
To sum that up I have no idea how to handle the Engine side of the computer.
As for the engine can I use the stock short block i already have(possible piston replacment) The spec for my engine is 8.5:1 c/r and the pistons are heavily dished. I don't know the volume of the piston or the combustion chamber...sorry. As i said i dont know the differences between the s1 n/a and s1 */c. Is the entire block different are the heads different, can I adapt a */c intake to fit these. Sorry for the begineer questions as I don't posese the knowledge to perform this swap but I do posess the knowledge to ask questions.
Also do you think that $200 is too much to pay for a 93k s1 */c with a "noisy" blower?...probaly coupler. And is the s1 */c engine also under the l67 rpo code? Also my friend had a 99 GSE regal that we played with, I know about the 3800 and */c but just not enough. Thank You
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Old 03-15-2005, 09:10 PM   #2
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Wow good stuff. Welcome to the club!

As far as the na and sc differences, as far as we know they're minimal. The sc has floating pins while the na is press fit. There'* some debate over rod differences that pops up every so often, so I'm not sure where the group opinion is on that. Personally I think they're the same, but don't bet the farm on it. The heads are the same, the crank is the same, the block is the same. With that you should be able to swap the intake without any issues. Interestingly GM didn't feel the need to change the CR between the two, so they're both 8.5:1. And yes the SI is also under the l67 code.

I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for as far as ECM controls, might not be much help to you there reguardless though.
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Old 03-16-2005, 01:24 AM   #3
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Thanks for the info. It is good to hear that basically the long block is the same. Now i just need to figure out how to make the thing run. I guess the easy way would be to get a computer from a bonneville or comperable vehicle but i dont know how the trofeo will like that. I have faith in your knowledge and the knowledge of this board. Thanks.
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Old 03-16-2005, 09:59 PM   #4
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You'll need (PCM wise)

Boost control, and a different fuel table.

Possibly some other adjustments, but those are the big ones.
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Old 03-16-2005, 10:35 PM   #5
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I'm not quite clear as to what you mean. You mean that all that I need is a boost control and dedicated fuel tables for the boosted application on top of my stock computer.(I dont forsee this working) Or that I can get those to work in my computer witout modifications.(This either) I know that there are many different programing modes for a */c'd enginre in comparsion to a n/a mill.
What I was thinking today: I wonder what will happen to the rest of the car if i run a computer similar to that of a factory L67...something like a 92' or so Bonneville, I think that the PCM will control only the engine and trans( I dont have the Electronic one but rather just the regular old 4t60) But what about all of my electronic dash stuff(if you have ever been in a Trofeo you know what i'm talking about). Stuff like economy engine info, rpm, temp, volts, oil index. And then other stuff like speedo...man there is so much to wonder about; it is fustrating but interesting at the same time.
Well i guess the engine will run on just the engine computer alone..that is how we do it on the dynos. HUM....
Sorry for te length i'm just trying to talk outloud and be specific at the same time.....trying not to waste people time.

Thanks
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Old 03-17-2005, 12:27 PM   #6
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Your N/A fuel table is different then the SC.

And your PCM doesn't have any controls for the BCS.

With the Normal 4t-60 and an L67, a custom chip is almost required. GM Tuners might be your best option.

Basically an Olds PCM with L67 engine.... It'll bei nteresting.
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Old 03-17-2005, 12:58 PM   #7
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Well that is a idea....maybee someone can reprogram my computer. I dont know if that is a feasiable option but it may be worth a try. That way all of the diagnostic features and other features of the car will stil work. I have a connection to Dave Buckshaw from DHP, maybee he can do something for me. Thank You...I'm still looking for ideas and opnions....anything will help
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Old 03-17-2005, 09:04 PM   #8
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Go to the Series 2. It has a STRONG aftermarket. Not to mention a M90 vs. M62. Its quite faster than the Series 1, stock vs. stock. The only Series 1'* that are close are the 94-95 */C'd. Still if you want easily accesable rockers or a cam, the ser 2 is the way to go. The ser 2 has better top end with the 6000rpm redline vs. 5500 with the ser 1.
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Old 03-22-2005, 02:29 PM   #9
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I'm aware that the series II is a better engine. I want to run the series 1 due to the ease of conversion. It will be hard to swap over a OBD II powerplant into a car that was engineered and designed to run with OBD I. As for the aftermarket parts; i'm not very concerned. As i have said earlier i will have two very fast cars and this will be more of a daily driver or crusing car(road trips) Basically i will mod the engine but not extensivlly, pully, rockers, port the heads and cam, little stuff like that...I think they make one it seems that you all have a cammed series . I pappreciate all of the info.....Thank You
I still need info as to the computer if anyone knows please reply.
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Old 03-31-2005, 11:18 AM   #10
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Ok i have got a respone from the guys over At Auto Shop. He is the one that put series 1 and a five speed in a 88 or 89 trofeo. This is that he said.

Yes, all Trofeo specific functions are retained on my swap. "CRUISE
SET AT xxx", HVAC, fuel mileage calculation and all work just like
they did before
the swap. That was the whole point of the conversion. Might as well
choose a
different platform for the swap if you're not going to keep all the
toys!

Sounds like you've got the mechanical part under control. Staying with
a

Series 1 makes that a far easier project. As far as wiring harness,
keep the existing one. You'll need to extend a few wires, but none of
it is a big

deal. If you get a supercharged engine that has the injector harness
intact, that saves a bit of time there.

As far as the ECM, it'* a bit more complicated than cutting and
pasting the */C fuel and spark tables. In fact, the stock */C tables
are quite pathetic,
from a performance standpoint. Also, there are several parameters in the

code that need to be modified to accomadate the larger MAF sensor,
provide proper information to the BCM and in general make the ECM work
properly with
an engine it was never intended for. Let'* just say there are literally
years of research in making this conversion work like it should. I've
been
playing with this project since early 2000.

There'* several people that have attempted projects like this with
Trofeos, Reattas and such. Most have failed to get everything to work
right, due to
ECM swaps, piggyback ECM'* and such. You have to be REAL careful with
GM30
cars, the data streams are very specific. You can't just go swapping
ECM'*
and hope everything works.
Then:
I can provide you the programming necessary for the swap. If you provide me
with the specifics of what modifications are done (year of engine,
injectors, etc.) I can make you a calibration that will work with your car.

The best programming can be done by bringing the car to my shop after you
perform the swap. At that time, I can also tune some parameters to your
preference. I could provide the above calibration to start with, then you
could bring it in for fine tuning.

He is very hepful
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