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Forced Induction All questions and problems regarding Superchargers, Turbos, NOS, ZEX, intercoolers, water injection, etc.

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Old 08-07-2003, 11:11 PM   #31
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I hate to break this to you, but you are wrong. If you add COLD water the air will be more dense, but, humid air is less dense then dry air. That is why people always bitch about humid weather conditions when they run at the track. But, water injection DOES cool the air, which does make it more dense... It all depends what temp the water is. If you can keep the water quite cool (with ice), then it is beneficial. If it is hot, like the engine, it is a toss up whether it will be beneficial or not. So, when you take a few more chemistry classes, come back and talk to me... LOL. Not trying to start ****, but don't say something unless you KNOW it to be true.
I think you should learn how to read before you flame me on not knowing **** and tell me to go to more chemistry classes. I said water (and other gases like o2) likes to create heat equilibrium. What point is there introducing HOT water into an engine? The air will just take the heat away from the water. It'* a pretty much given you put in colder water than the air.....I'm sorry if i was assuming people had some common sense.
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Old 08-07-2003, 11:34 PM   #32
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ok guys, here is how i have it set up for the water/alcohol injection.

i have a NOS fogger nozzle installed in my intake tube aprox 8-10" from the TB. it is boost activated and when i race, i ice down the SC and also add ice into the washer bottle where i have my water/alcohol mixture.
i also have the IAT sensor in the intake tube just as it leaves the airbox and before the fogger nozzle. i have everything insulated to keep my intake air temps as cool as possible too
 
Old 08-08-2003, 12:02 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by h3llphyre
I hate to break this to you, but you are wrong. If you add COLD water the air will be more dense, but, humid air is less dense then dry air. That is why people always bitch about humid weather conditions when they run at the track. But, water injection DOES cool the air, which does make it more dense... It all depends what temp the water is. If you can keep the water quite cool (with ice), then it is beneficial. If it is hot, like the engine, it is a toss up whether it will be beneficial or not. So, when you take a few more chemistry classes, come back and talk to me... LOL. Not trying to start ****, but don't say something unless you KNOW it to be true.
wow... hold up just one second. it'* not a good idea to come in here flaming... no, it'* just not the best of ideas... and as to the issue of water tempature... if is any temp below the temp of the intake charge, it will help... i can't imagine the water being warmer than the air comming out of a turbo pushing 14psi, and you might want to take my advise about not flaming... it'* just not a good idea...
 
Old 08-08-2003, 12:19 PM   #34
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Old 08-08-2003, 12:33 PM   #35
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Gold star swarm?

This thread WAS locked then shortly released to allow futhur postings. The next flaming bag of crap that gets thrown will result in a relock.

Tim said it well....
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Old 08-08-2003, 02:00 PM   #36
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Hey, where did everyone go?

Back on the topic......Water injection DOES increase air density if properly applied, and DOES reduce the intake air charge temps. It also has a mild cooling effect on the engine temps. I've seen this personally. I was the first on this club to install a system. I custom built it to prove the theories for myself. I did this because I KNEW of the benefits. Water injection was run on B29'* in WWII for this reason. They could reach higher altitudes because of it (The B29 was supercharged, as well).

Bass is dead on with his physics. There'* alot of success stories with water injection dating all the way back to the first documented setup run on the beach at Daytona in 1900. There are also several commercial systems available. Not too long ago there was a major performance magazine that had a "Supertuning" competition, where the top performance shops were invited. The rules would not allow forced induction other than water injection. 9 out of 10 entries had water injection on runoff day.

There'* a cool webpage (I'll try to find it) about a Miata owner in PR or Singapore....something humid like that. They run these cars on short oval tracks. Most are overheating criticallly by the 5th lap. As a result, they schedule short races. This one particular owner/driver built his own system, very similar to the way Jeffrey and I did. He can run UNLIMITED distances now........AND has higher boost.

Let'* keep this one going!
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Old 08-10-2003, 01:49 PM   #37
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well as far as the water/alcohol injection goes, i can tell you that it works
the begining of the race season, i made a run with the W/A injection turned off then made a pass with it turned on. the run with it on was 0.2 secs faster than the run with it off.
i honestly think i made the right move installing the W/A injection on my car. and yes Will is very correct , W/A injection has been around for longer than most of us have been living.
 
Old 08-16-2003, 01:03 PM   #38
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ok, i just had to put this in to prove a point.
some say that people run 11'* and 12'* with a bonneville and dont run 17 psi of boost. well that is true :( but as for the numbers, they better look again. here is a page from high performance pontiac with a bio and numbers of digital kens car. he is the designer and builder of the zzp mini afc 1.0 and 2.0 versions..
once you read this, you will see that in fact he isnt running 17 psi of boost, he is running 24 psi and in a GTP that they converted from a roots SC to a paxton novi.
here is the artical and everyone can read just how much R&D, money, and company backing to get a car in to those numbers without nitrous.
click this link to see :
http://www.zzpftp.com/HPPKEN.JPG
 
Old 08-17-2003, 02:03 PM   #39
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Ok... I just saw this, but the reasons I know of people not liking humid days is this... If it'* humid, and humid days occur much more often during hot days, then colder days. Dew point is also a factor. I mean, when was the last time you complained about it being humid in october?

Also if it'* a very humid day the moisture in the air is already heated up, and it wont help cool it any. If it'* humid you're pulling in all that moisture into the intake, so you don't get as much air, but if you water/alcohol it you're using cool water, cooling the air etc. And stopping KR, which we all know just steals power and shoves it in a dark hole.
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Old 08-17-2003, 02:17 PM   #40
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you hit the nail on the head with that one.
when i rave , i ice my SC down and when in the staging lanes, i add ice to the water/alcohol mixture, dropping the temp of the mixture to about 45*-50*
 
 
 
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