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Forced Induction All questions and problems regarding Superchargers, Turbos, NOS, ZEX, intercoolers, water injection, etc.

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Old 08-14-2004, 02:43 AM   #1
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Default Compressed air tank "supercharger," would this wor

Okay, I can't decide if this is stupid or brilliant. After learning about exactly how a supercharger and a turbocharger work, I wondered, why not stick a 5 gallon air tank in the back with a slow filling compressor, run the air line up beside the driver seat with a release valve, and run the tube into the intake, kinda like NOS, but not. I was curious, so I opened up the air box a little and tried just spraying the air straight into the intake, but it made the engine die. I guess it was a sensor. I would think it would work a little better at high RPM'* or WOT for a quick 1/4 mile run, but what sensors would I have to bypass, would I need a different computer, or what? Please discuss, I think this would be an interesting thing to have and show off, and could potentially work as well as a super- or turbo- charger, but it wouldn't take the power of running a pulley or put the stress on the exhaust. Please discuss this, I'm either onto something good or onto learning something.
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Old 08-14-2004, 03:04 AM   #2
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Well being a 3.8L engine it sucks in 3.8L of air every 2 revolutions. 3.8L of air is equal to 1 gallon of Air. So you'd be able to supply 2.5 Full cycles on your own. It'd be heavy too.
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Old 08-14-2004, 03:42 AM   #3
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I thought the 3.8 L measurement was the full size of the cylinders, and therefore, the amount of displacement of the ignited gas, which is alot more than the amount of air that is actually brought in through the induction. I'm not trying to be smart alec or anything, I'm really just getting into understanding engines, and I've worked none with them. So please just let me know if I'm wrong and tell me what'* wrong about it.
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Old 08-15-2004, 06:32 AM   #4
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No the displacement of an engine is the measure of a combustion chamber. The AFR (air fuel ratio) is about 14.7 (off the top of my head). That'* 14.7 parts of air, to one part of vaporized fuel. This area added up by all 6 cyls equals the displacement. It uses that much air every cycle. If you had 3.8L of gas, you'd have lots of problems, mileage, range, enviromental. 3.8L = 1 US gallon, and about 230 canadian gallons, If you used 3.8L of gas every engine cycle, you'd run out of gas quick.

1000RPMs = 16.6 revs per second. With your 18 gallon capacity, you could run, 1.1 seconds on a tank. Enough to go 20' if you're launching hard.

This message was assisted by Damemorder, who'* almost passed out, from sleep deprivation.

Your car needs around 300-400 CFM, a dinky tiny air hose will not add anythign to it, but mess up your MAF readings, maybe break the maf. For any decent power gains, you'd need to empty it within a few seconds, and you're valve would have to be bigger then the throttle body.
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Old 08-31-2004, 05:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonneMeMN
No the displacement of an engine is the measure of a combustion chamber. The AFR (air fuel ratio) is about 14.7 (off the top of my head). That'* 14.7 parts of air, to one part of vaporized fuel. This area added up by all 6 cyls equals the displacement. It uses that much air every cycle. If you had 3.8L of gas, you'd have lots of problems, mileage, range, enviromental. 3.8L = 1 US gallon, and about 230 canadian gallons, If you used 3.8L of gas every engine cycle, you'd run out of gas quick.

1000RPMs = 16.6 revs per second. With your 18 gallon capacity, you could run, 1.1 seconds on a tank. Enough to go 20' if you're launching hard.

This message was assisted by Damemorder, who'* almost passed out, from sleep deprivation.

Your car needs around 300-400 CFM, a dinky tiny air hose will not add anythign to it, but mess up your MAF readings, maybe break the maf. For any decent power gains, you'd need to empty it within a few seconds, and you're valve would have to be bigger then the throttle body.
Ok, not exactly. True the engine will take in about 3.8L of air in two revolutions. But this is 3.8L of air at atmospheric pressure of 14.7 psi. If his 5 gallon tank was charged to let'* say 5 bar (5 x atmospheric or ~74 psi), then he would have 25 gallons of "atmospheric pressure" air available. Of course he can't get out the last 5 gallons. And you can get tanks of compressed air up to about 2,000 psi, such as a scuba tank. And maybe you could get a more oxygen-rich mixture. (this is sounding more and more like NOS)

True, you would have to empty it at a decent flow rate, but you would not need a valve bigger than the throttle body, because the air is being driven with a high differential pressure. The throttle body is large because the engine can only develop a differential pressure of 14.7 psi, and that is only if it develops a perfect vacuum on the intake side. (which it does not) You would need an intermediate pressure regulator to bring the pressure down to maybe 200 psi or so. And there is the added advantage that when you release a compressed gas, it comes out cold.

You would need a method to valve over the intake from the normal fresh air position to your air tank, then back again. Otherwise you would not be able to pressurize the intake.

I am not saying this will all work but there is something to it.
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Old 08-31-2004, 06:11 PM   #6
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Possibly add another butterfly door like in the TB to keep the pressureized air flowing into the TB stead of losein pressure back feedin out the accordian tubing?

LMAO !!! This sounds more and more like MAd Max car with ON DEMAND boost
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Old 08-31-2004, 06:18 PM   #7
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This is entertaining, but out of respect I will hide my sense of humor. Must.......remain.....in control.......

If it was practical, it would have been done already. Anyone know how heavy an oxygen cylinder is?

Now how do you vary the flow based on throttle position? It can be done, but is it practical?
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Old 08-31-2004, 06:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
This is entertaining, but out of respect I will hide my sense of humor. Must.......remain.....in control.......

If it was practical, it would have been done already. Anyone know how heavy an oxygen cylinder is?

Now how do you vary the flow based on throttle position? It can be done, but is it practical?
Will, you could have just let it lie there and die !!!!!

Lots of practical things have not been done yet. They have to wait for technology or for a purpose in life.

An oxygen cylinder would probably weigh at least as much as a well-fed passenger !!!

Not sure you would need to vary the flow. How about using a high-flow, low pressure regulator to maintain .. let'* say 10 psi at the inlet of the engine????

Is this better or worse than the proposed "leaf blower" supercharger???
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Old 08-31-2004, 07:24 PM   #9
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Better.

Go for it!
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Old 08-31-2004, 10:55 PM   #10
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Mmmm...do nitrous. Cheaper and easier.
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