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Old 04-26-2006, 01:16 PM   #11
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I read the first page (skipped the link in the thread for now), but I am on 3 tech calls right now and have a few posts I am dealing with on Rimfire Central, have to get a few things sorted out before I can read it in it'* entirety. We will try that first and if that doesnít work then we will break out the coat hanger and go to town. Again much appreciation for all your help.

Jeff
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Old 04-26-2006, 11:35 PM   #12
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Ok I read everything and this is what I found.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lash
I spent some time this weekend trying to find something in the FSMs that could help, but there is little in the manual that helps with self diagnosis. The obvious intent is that ECC diagnosis be done at the dealer with a Tech2 Scantool. The manual says, 'The only way to display diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) is by using a scan tool. There are no provisions for "ON-BOARD" diagnostics.' But we knew that.

As such, the manual doesn't say anything about the actuator travel either, since it assumes you are using the scan tool to diagnose. There is, however, a "Temperature Valve Link Adjustment" procedure that could be used to ensure that you had full adjustment.

Here'* a summary:
Temperature Valve Link Adjustment
1. Pull valve link from retainer on programmer output crank.
2. Start vehicle; set temperature to 32 deg C (90 F).
3. Allow 45 seconds minimum for programmer motor to move output crank to its full hot position. Then move temperature valve to full hot position; snap valve link back into retainer on output crank.

There are also a couple items I thought I'd mention here, since I didn't see them posted yet. They are basic, but...

- All these tests assume a warm engine with temps outside vehicle at 6 C (43 F).
- If vehicle was recently running, a purge delay of approx. 20 seconds may be encountered before a selected mode is activated. This delay is normal and is designed to prevent windshiled fogging.
- To prevent windshield frosting during cold start up and cool outside temps, the system delays operation modes until the engine is warm (except when defrost is selected).

As far as rockauto.com goes, I know I've seen that some people have used them. We've also used gmpartsdirect.com and a couple others that currently escape my memory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by faisalmali
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97-SSE
on the way to work this morning the display was not flashing

as the engine reached operating temperature the system activated and acted very normal. i had so much heat i had to shut the system off.

i then turned the system back on then stopped to by gas

after restarting the car the display was not flashing ant the system seemed normal.
except i'm getting full heat.

i will reconnect the actuator rod tonight and see what happens then.
If I understand correctly, you have the actuator rod disconnected and the level is to the full right. Yes, that would mean you are getting maximum heat regardless of what your temp setting is. Let'* see what happens when you set the rod back in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97-SSE
the actuator rod is reconnected and the system seems to be operating properly.

thanks to all who have helped with this problem
We will try this Thursday and "get back to you soon with more details"

Thanks guys I think this might solve it.

Jeff
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Old 04-27-2006, 10:22 AM   #13
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Let us know.
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Old 04-27-2006, 08:30 PM   #14
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One question. Do we need to disconnect the battery for this recalibration or id always done on startup? We are disconnecting the rod as I type this.

Thanks

Jeff
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Old 04-28-2006, 02:03 AM   #15
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Well guys thanks for all your help we got it "fixed" for now. After setting the door ful right starting the car and raising the temp to 90* I watched the rod retract and at that point I got the slot aligned and used a screwdriver to raise it into position. I found that adding a piece of tape around the shaft about an inch from the point that I could slide the screwdriver under the threaded bar where the small access hole is. When I pushed the screwdriver under the rod it would catch on the tape and I could then place it into the slot (that I lined up earlier). Then using the screwdriver to insert through the hole, pop the rod down into the slot, while holding the door closed with a second screwdriver We did it about 3 times because I wasnít sure if the door was fully closed the first time.

When we started the car we could watch it pull slightly back and then stay. When we moved the control to 60* the door only opened half way. I was able to nudge it with a screwdriver and it opened fully. I thought it wasnít calibrated right so I R&Ríed it for the last time. We cycled between full hot and full cold a few times and I could see the motor either bind up or there are a couple of teeth stripped in a gearbox or something (I donít know if ití* a linear actuator, rack and pinion or crankbell linkage), Iím guessing. After several more times it seemed to start working on ití* own without help. For right now it seems to be fixed but looks to need a new actuator assy.

The motor seems to be a stepper and I guess gets ití* feedback from a potentiometer. I guess the code comes from the number of steps moved vs the voltage from the pot are not what the cal was set to so that is causing the error if after 50 drive cycles it doesnít clear?

The one thing I tried to do was remove that bracket for better access, but after taking several bolts and the ones that have nuts on the back I figured out that it looked like I had a couple of fasteners under the airbag, would have made life a lot easier but Ití* too much of a hassle, since power has (should) to be disconnected and we were under the impression that removing the power might add to our headacheí* . For anyone that has to do this ití* pretty easy and takes about 3 beers and a smoke break. (or 10 minutes if you get after it).

Now to what started this:
A while ago he started having hard starts and would sometimes die going around a corner or hard braking, but it wasnít an everyday occurrence. We looked on this board and got things from a vacuum leak (which I was betting on), to fuel pump, to regulator, electrical issues and so forth. I tested fuel pressure and found it to be right in the correct range with the line on and off (and it wasnít leaking). One morning he stops at the store and when he gets out and tries to start it BOOM, the upper intake manifold blows up, bends fuel rails, shreds the liner even put a small dent in the hood, it was a big mess. He takes it to a mechanic who repairs the carnage but the problem persists. He found information pertaining to this problem regarding this in a TSB and takes it to the stealership to find his particular car already has the necessary flash upgrade (fix). The tech replaced the FPR and all is well. My assumption is the diaphragm was failing but not at all times. At every occurrence that the car acted up (except startup), the FPR would have been under a high vacuum condition causing this leak and flooding. After the car came back from the manifold repair is when the problem started.

Again thanks for all your help on this. Sorry to be so long winded but an awful lot of the posts where I thought I would find the information ended up going dead without a resolution.

Thanks

Jeff
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Old 04-28-2006, 10:23 AM   #16
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Thanks for wrapping this one up for us all, Jeff.

Just so that I'm clear on this...You're saying that a bad FPR caused intermittant fuel flooding, resulting in your UIM literally blowing up. After the UIM was replaced, you started to have the ECC issue, correct?

This makes me wonder what the corrolation between these two events is. My first guess would simply be that your battery was probably disconnected for a longtime and maybe, if your air mix door was in a certain position when the car was turned off before the repairs, the mix door lost calibration.

The reason I'm belaboring this issue, is that we have seen a number of people who have had the air mix door issue and an ECC calibration problem. I was wondering if there could be a way to find commonality as to when this occurs.
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Old 04-28-2006, 10:54 AM   #17
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Lash...the only commonality we have seen thus far is the unhooking of the battery.
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Old 04-28-2006, 04:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lash
Thanks for wrapping this one up for us all, Jeff.

Just so that I'm clear on this...You're saying that a bad FPR caused intermittant fuel flooding, resulting in your UIM literally blowing up. After the UIM was replaced, you started to have the ECC issue, correct?

This makes me wonder what the corrolation between these two events is. My first guess would simply be that your battery was probably disconnected for a longtime and maybe, if your air mix door was in a certain position when the car was turned off before the repairs, the mix door lost calibration.

The reason I'm belaboring this issue, is that we have seen a number of people who have had the air mix door issue and an ECC calibration problem. I was wondering if there could be a way to find commonality as to when this occurs.
Yes the FPR caused this condition and the mechanic that did the replacement of the UIM is on equal ground with my skills working on cars (though he is an actual mechanic) I have just learned through prior experience and always driving junker cars. This car isn't actually mine it is my friend Mauro'*. I know the battery was disconnected when replacing the UIM. During this time it was "winter" here (in the 40'*) so I reckon that Mauro had the temp set at a comfortable level which the mix door wasnít fully open or closed. So maybe this causes the problem but I am just guessing, based on previous posts read and what you guys have said here. The Stealership actually replaced the FPR. I couldnít find anything wrong with it because I didnít apply vacuum to it, and it didnít dribble when I looked.

Last night when we were playing with after getting it working I noticed that whatever position the door is in when the ignition is shut off that'* where it stays. When started it returns to "home" and then moves after 20 seconds to the temp set. I also went so far as to watch the blend door and turn the temp up or down a few degrees to watch the door move a small amount. It occurs like this: If the temp cannot be reached by using the fan speed then the door is moved. For instance you have it at 90 the fan blows full and the door is all the way right. If you then switch the temp lower the fan slows and then as you go lower the door will start to move.

So based on all this if battery power is removed with the door in a mid position, when the batt is reconnected that it goes home and the output from the pot and the number of steps taken (or commanded and not taken) by the stepper are not in sync causing the error, which I guess disables the door actuator.

Based on what I have seen I donít know if it would be better to go full hot of full cold before disconnecting the battery. What do you think?

Jeff
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Old 04-28-2006, 04:26 PM   #19
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This is GREAT input, Jeff! I think you're closing in on it. It would seem to me that there is indeed a reason, just as you described why some people end up with an ECC error that won't recalibrate and others don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J57ltr
Based on what I have seen I donít know if it would be better to go full hot of full cold before disconnecting the battery. What do you think?
It would be a guess at this point to try and decide which would be better, and maybe either would be OK. Without testing different settings and being willing to mess with the actuator door each time, we still don't know. I don't have ECC, so can't be of much help in the research department. I'm more of the idea man, lol.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBoost37
Lash...the only commonality we have seen thus far is the unhooking of the battery.
Until now. It had occurred to me that not everybody who disconnected their battery was experiencing the ECC error. That'* why this direction of inquiry.

It'* too early to tell, but maybe we can help avoid some future ECC errors by advising a certain setting before batterys are disconnected.
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Old 04-28-2006, 05:05 PM   #20
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Since calibration procedures start with "full hot", I would tend to think that if disconnection of the battery is really causing a problem, then full hot, or 90*, would be the place to when disconnecting the battery. Actually, I am thinking "OFF" is the best position if battery disconnection is the culprit.
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