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Old 05-18-2006, 03:02 AM   #1
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Default Dupont Vs. PPG

Anyone have a good pro'* and con'* about these 2 paints?

The Bonne'* gonna be hitting the paint booth here REALL soon, and as soon as next weekend.

So the the search for research is on!
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Old 05-18-2006, 09:03 AM   #2
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Default Re: Dupont Vs. PPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakevilleSSEi
Anyone have a good pro'* and con'* about these 2 paints?
Not really much of a difference. All you got to do is stick to the same system for primer, base, and top coats. (Always a bad idea to mix components from different makers or try to lay a pearl or clear over a different manf. base coat. Sometimes it works, but your rolling some very expensive dice.)

Both are urethane that require reducers to shoot them and catalysts to light them off. Pot times are about the same too. Both light off pretty quick and both cure to a very hard and solvent proof finish. Both can be shot through conventional and HVLP guns. I tend to mix very small batches, but I'm usually doing sportbike body panels and small parts. Cleanup with Acetone within a hour or so, after that, ya gotta chip and sand the stuff off.

Right now I'm using Dupont Nason, just because two projects ago had a color that wasn't available in PPG Deltron (Painted the Honda CBR "International Schoolbus Yellow" Once you start buying the components, you tend to stick with the same system to use the stuff up.

Do your surface prep to the nth degree, suit up and pick your poison

If you are not going to suit up, at least wear a respirator and goggles and limit your exposure times...these paints are hard as hell on your lungs and will give you a 20 Tylenol headace. (Been there, done that)

Added thoughts: If you've already used spray-can primer on the car, sand that gunk off, clean the surface with acetone, and use the etching primer for the system you choose.
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Old 05-18-2006, 06:43 PM   #3
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From the way it looks, it'* not gonna be a full paint job......More of spot shooting and blending, to take care of the really bad stuff.

I'm going to go was the car now at a friends house and we're gonna 3 stage buff it and wax it to get a better idea of what we're looking at for paint. The new rear bumper I have, front bumper, hood, and the ground effects are for sure along with the new LF door molding I have.

So honestly, I have no clue how much of the car will really get shot up......But the more the better I look at it lol.
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Old 05-18-2006, 06:49 PM   #4
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ah finally gonna paint it pink.....for you its fitting, you want the Patrick Doll to match????


the New paint should look good with the new rims
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Old 05-18-2006, 08:38 PM   #5
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Hey, looks like we finnaly got another painter here

question for you clm2112, what do you mean but "light off" is it the same as "flash off"?

As for the main question at hand, I personaly have not used those to paints, I use BASF R-M Diamont paint personal i feel that you can use different companys primer under base but i wouldnt mix a different clear over base

And personaly i dont think you shouldnt do any large panels yourself keep that for the pros if you want to be happy with it, but thats just my opinion
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Old 05-19-2006, 12:14 AM   #6
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I've painted whole vehicles before....

I used to work in a body shop for a yr and half painting when I was in high school
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Old 05-19-2006, 12:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakevilleSSEi
I've painted whole vehicles before....

I used to work in a body shop for a yr and half painting when I was in high school
so does that mean you have access to a proper spray both?
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Old 05-19-2006, 12:21 AM   #8
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About 4 of them actually.........LOL
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Old 05-19-2006, 08:06 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterg22000
question for you clm2112, what do you mean but "light off" is it the same as "flash off"?
Yes, to a certain extent. These catalyzed paints are more akin to resins used in fiberglassing, in that once mixed they will start the cure process whether on the car or in the gun. What I refer to as "light off" is when the cure process starts. Pot life is the absolute limit of the time you have to apply it before it gels too much to shoot.

Lemme give an example to see if the difference makes sense: Mix a batch...that starts the clock running. About 10-15 minutes later the cure process lights off and starts to effect the paint (your paint cup starts to feel warm..that'* the heat from the chemical reaction taking place in the paint) Keep going for another 20-25 minutes and the paint isn't shootable in the gun (it'* reached it'* pot life.) You can extend those times a little with more reducer, but the consistency of the paint as I like to shoot it gives me about 20 minutes tops from mixing to having it all applied and starting to clean out the gun. The painted parts have a hard surface in an hour without the use of external heat.

Flash-off to me is just when the paint applied skins over and you can safely put another coat down on top of it. Your technique can have a dramatic effect on that. Shoot at some combination of too thick of a consistency, too thin paint-to-air mix, or too high a pressure and you can get the paint to "flash off" in mid-air (resulting in anything from a pebbly looking surface to a surface like sandpaper depending on how much it flashes off before hitting the surface of the part being painted.

Sags and Orange Peel surfaces are the opposite ends of the acceptabe range of consistancy, mix, and pressure. Perfect is right up the middle...paint hits wet, thin enough to flatten out into a smooth surface, flashes off to lock that smooth surface in place ready for more (like the overlapping coat for the next pass of of the spray gun.) Sags are you put too much down at one time..the paint moved, then flashed off. Orange peel is the paint nearly flashed off in mid-air, so it hit the surface and didn't flatten out completely before the skin formed to hold it in place (giving you a paint surface that has thousands of little impact craters in it)

Hope that makes sense. I didn't attend trade school...mine was all O-J-T at the hands of another painter and fiberglasser.
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Old 05-19-2006, 03:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clm2112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterg22000
question for you clm2112, what do you mean but "light off" is it the same as "flash off"?
Yes, to a certain extent. These catalyzed paints are more akin to resins used in fiberglassing, in that once mixed they will start the cure process whether on the car or in the gun. What I refer to as "light off" is when the cure process starts. Pot life is the absolute limit of the time you have to apply it before it gels too much to shoot.

Lemme give an example to see if the difference makes sense: Mix a batch...that starts the clock running. About 10-15 minutes later the cure process lights off and starts to effect the paint (your paint cup starts to feel warm..that'* the heat from the chemical reaction taking place in the paint) Keep going for another 20-25 minutes and the paint isn't shootable in the gun (it'* reached it'* pot life.) You can extend those times a little with more reducer, but the consistency of the paint as I like to shoot it gives me about 20 minutes tops from mixing to having it all applied and starting to clean out the gun. The painted parts have a hard surface in an hour without the use of external heat.

Flash-off to me is just when the paint applied skins over and you can safely put another coat down on top of it. Your technique can have a dramatic effect on that. Shoot at some combination of too thick of a consistency, too thin paint-to-air mix, or too high a pressure and you can get the paint to "flash off" in mid-air (resulting in anything from a pebbly looking surface to a surface like sandpaper depending on how much it flashes off before hitting the surface of the part being painted.

Sags and Orange Peel surfaces are the opposite ends of the acceptabe range of consistancy, mix, and pressure. Perfect is right up the middle...paint hits wet, thin enough to flatten out into a smooth surface, flashes off to lock that smooth surface in place ready for more (like the overlapping coat for the next pass of of the spray gun.) Sags are you put too much down at one time..the paint moved, then flashed off. Orange peel is the paint nearly flashed off in mid-air, so it hit the surface and didn't flatten out completely before the skin formed to hold it in place (giving you a paint surface that has thousands of little impact craters in it)

Hope that makes sense. I didn't attend trade school...mine was all O-J-T at the hands of another painter and fiberglasser.
very well put
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