how do you clean sludged up cam phasers on 2019 chevrolet spark?
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Spark drivability issues
CathedralCub
Thanks for asking.
My original post was-
Help! 2019 Chevy Spark 1.4L-idling, drivability issues. I own a spark with 77K miles which keeps throwing p0014/ B Camshaft position timing over advanced, p0017 Crankshaft position camshaft position correlation bank 1 sensor B, and p0507 idle air control system rpm codes at the same time.
I have changed (the parts changer in me) one of the cam position sensors, a crank PS, a variable timing solenoid, the PVC valve, the throttle body and the idle air sensor . I have checked the other sensors, and checked for vacuum leaks (3X) but it continues to throw those codes and the idle speed jumps from 1000 to 2000, occasionally stalling at lights or upon start-up.
The dealer wanted to pull the valve cover to see if everything'* in place but it runs good otherwise so I felt it would be a thousand dollars wasted. In desperation I pulled the valve cover and saw a lot of sludge build up so I pulled the oil pan and cleaned and flushed the sludge out the best I could.
What am I missing? I'm ready to put another engine in it thinking that it'* been run hard and not maintained, (I just acquired it). That could rule out all but the electrical, but that'* kind of crazy. Please, smarter minds prevail. thank you
Your reply
The cams are not aligned.
Cubby, I'm ready to pull the front cover and find the issue but my problem is that I cannot find the part'* or alignment tool online, not sure if the vehicle is to new or if few have this problem. I'm guessing that some of the parts/tools will cross with older models but cannot seem to pull that info up.
I'm guessing that the guides are worn or the cam(?) that puts tension on the guide is gummed to the point that it fails to properly engage the guide.
I must have changed the oil 4 times in the last 1000 miles with cleaning the sludge and the cam phasers. One cam phaser solenoid as replaced the other checked and cleaned.
With all that has been done I don't have the high idle but I still have stalling at lights and throw the same codes.
One last question....where have you gained your exceptional wisdom?
Thanks so much
Craig
Thanks for asking.
My original post was-
Help! 2019 Chevy Spark 1.4L-idling, drivability issues. I own a spark with 77K miles which keeps throwing p0014/ B Camshaft position timing over advanced, p0017 Crankshaft position camshaft position correlation bank 1 sensor B, and p0507 idle air control system rpm codes at the same time.
I have changed (the parts changer in me) one of the cam position sensors, a crank PS, a variable timing solenoid, the PVC valve, the throttle body and the idle air sensor . I have checked the other sensors, and checked for vacuum leaks (3X) but it continues to throw those codes and the idle speed jumps from 1000 to 2000, occasionally stalling at lights or upon start-up.
The dealer wanted to pull the valve cover to see if everything'* in place but it runs good otherwise so I felt it would be a thousand dollars wasted. In desperation I pulled the valve cover and saw a lot of sludge build up so I pulled the oil pan and cleaned and flushed the sludge out the best I could.
What am I missing? I'm ready to put another engine in it thinking that it'* been run hard and not maintained, (I just acquired it). That could rule out all but the electrical, but that'* kind of crazy. Please, smarter minds prevail. thank you
Your reply
If it can't get the cams phased properly it will run poorly, and it probably has some provisions built into its programming to help it try to keep running in such a situation so that it can be taken to a mechanic soon.
Here'* what I see:
- The car is a 2019, therefore about two years old
- The car has 77,000 miles on it, therefore 38,500 miles per year
- 38,500 miles per year is a lot of miles, ~3,000 per month
A car that gets driven that much probably didn't do much of it slowly. For it to be sludged up that bad I'd guess it seldom or never got an oil change. Sledged up cam phasers will generate your code.
If you can drive it, I suggest you de-sludge it as best as you can then put fresh oil and filter in it and take it out on the highway for 50 miles on the highway. Then change the oil and filter and take it out for another hundred miles and see if it starts to clear up. Maybe 200.
Fresh oil might work its way into sludged places and fix it.
Otherwise you might have to dig deeper. If nothing else is wrong with it besides what you mentioned, it'd probably be worth troubleshooting.
Here'* what I see:
- The car is a 2019, therefore about two years old
- The car has 77,000 miles on it, therefore 38,500 miles per year
- 38,500 miles per year is a lot of miles, ~3,000 per month
A car that gets driven that much probably didn't do much of it slowly. For it to be sludged up that bad I'd guess it seldom or never got an oil change. Sledged up cam phasers will generate your code.
If you can drive it, I suggest you de-sludge it as best as you can then put fresh oil and filter in it and take it out on the highway for 50 miles on the highway. Then change the oil and filter and take it out for another hundred miles and see if it starts to clear up. Maybe 200.
Fresh oil might work its way into sludged places and fix it.
Otherwise you might have to dig deeper. If nothing else is wrong with it besides what you mentioned, it'd probably be worth troubleshooting.
The cams are not aligned.
Cubby, I'm ready to pull the front cover and find the issue but my problem is that I cannot find the part'* or alignment tool online, not sure if the vehicle is to new or if few have this problem. I'm guessing that some of the parts/tools will cross with older models but cannot seem to pull that info up.
I'm guessing that the guides are worn or the cam(?) that puts tension on the guide is gummed to the point that it fails to properly engage the guide.
I must have changed the oil 4 times in the last 1000 miles with cleaning the sludge and the cam phasers. One cam phaser solenoid as replaced the other checked and cleaned.
With all that has been done I don't have the high idle but I still have stalling at lights and throw the same codes.
One last question....where have you gained your exceptional wisdom?
Thanks so much
Craig
Last edited by CathedralCub; Mar 12, 2022 at 01:24 AM. Reason: CathedralCub corrected quoted sections for clarity
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 9
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CathedralCub
Uh, I thought that I messaged you days ago but somehow it must have been sent to the moon.
2019 Chevy spark 1.4 drive ability issues original post.
Help! 2019 Chevy Spark 1.4L-idling, drivability issues. I own a spark with 77K miles which keeps throwing p0014/ B Camshaft position timing over advanced, p0017 Crankshaft position camshaft position correlation bank 1 sensor B, and p0507 idle air control system rpm codes at the same time.
I have changed (the parts changer in me) one of the cam position sensors, a crank PS, a variable timing solenoid, the PVC valve, the throttle body and the idle air sensor . I have checked the other sensors, and checked for vacuum leaks (3X) but it continues to throw those codes and the idle speed jumps from 1000 to 2000, occasionally stalling at lights or upon start-up.
The dealer wanted to pull the valve cover to see if everything'* in place but it runs good otherwise so I felt it would be a thousand dollars wasted. In desperation I pulled the valve cover and saw a lot of sludge build up so I pulled the oil pan and cleaned and flushed the sludge out the best I could.
What am I missing? I'm ready to put another engine in it thinking that it'* been run hard and not maintained, (I just acquired it). That could rule out all but the electrical, but that'* kind of crazy. Please, smarter minds prevail. thank you
Your reply
At that point I polled the valve cover and the oil pan and cleaned all the sludge best I could.
All the phaser solenoid'* were cleaned/checked/replaced as well as the sensors.
It still kept throwing thee 0014, 0017 and 0106Manifold absolute....code.
A friend came by and we pulled the valve cover (again) and the cam looks to have jumped a tooth or two. With it'* poor service history I'm guessing that the tensioners/guides are worn and caused the jump.
I'll attach a pic but I can't seem to find the parts or the cam alignment tool that I need. Do you know if an older 1.4 would use the same parts/tool?
Thanks for all the help that you give us novices.
Oh well, it won't let me upload my pic but I can see where the cam gears are not sitting in the same position, one is off a bit from the other. I'm guessing it'* the intake came since the code is on bank one.
Uh, I thought that I messaged you days ago but somehow it must have been sent to the moon.
2019 Chevy spark 1.4 drive ability issues original post.
Help! 2019 Chevy Spark 1.4L-idling, drivability issues. I own a spark with 77K miles which keeps throwing p0014/ B Camshaft position timing over advanced, p0017 Crankshaft position camshaft position correlation bank 1 sensor B, and p0507 idle air control system rpm codes at the same time.
I have changed (the parts changer in me) one of the cam position sensors, a crank PS, a variable timing solenoid, the PVC valve, the throttle body and the idle air sensor . I have checked the other sensors, and checked for vacuum leaks (3X) but it continues to throw those codes and the idle speed jumps from 1000 to 2000, occasionally stalling at lights or upon start-up.
The dealer wanted to pull the valve cover to see if everything'* in place but it runs good otherwise so I felt it would be a thousand dollars wasted. In desperation I pulled the valve cover and saw a lot of sludge build up so I pulled the oil pan and cleaned and flushed the sludge out the best I could.
What am I missing? I'm ready to put another engine in it thinking that it'* been run hard and not maintained, (I just acquired it). That could rule out all but the electrical, but that'* kind of crazy. Please, smarter minds prevail. thank you
Your reply
If it can't get the cams phased properly it will run poorly, and it probably has some provisions built into its programming to help it try to keep running in such a situation so that it can be taken to a mechanic soon.
Here'* what I see:
- The car is a 2019, therefore about two years old
- The car has 77,000 miles on it, therefore 38,500 miles per year
- 38,500 miles per year is a lot of miles, ~3,000 per month
A car that gets driven that much probably didn't do much of it slowly. For it to be sludged up that bad I'd guess it seldom or never got an oil change. Sludged up cam phasers will generate your code.
If you can drive it, I suggest you de-sludge it as best as you can then put fresh oil and filter in it and take it out on the highway for 50 miles on the highway. Then change the oil and filter and take it out for another hundred miles and see if it starts to clear up. Maybe 200.
Fresh oil might work its way into sludged places and fix it.
Otherwise you might have to dig deeper. If nothing else is wrong with it besides what you mentioned, it'd probably be worth troubleshooting
Here'* what I see:
- The car is a 2019, therefore about two years old
- The car has 77,000 miles on it, therefore 38,500 miles per year
- 38,500 miles per year is a lot of miles, ~3,000 per month
A car that gets driven that much probably didn't do much of it slowly. For it to be sludged up that bad I'd guess it seldom or never got an oil change. Sludged up cam phasers will generate your code.
If you can drive it, I suggest you de-sludge it as best as you can then put fresh oil and filter in it and take it out on the highway for 50 miles on the highway. Then change the oil and filter and take it out for another hundred miles and see if it starts to clear up. Maybe 200.
Fresh oil might work its way into sludged places and fix it.
Otherwise you might have to dig deeper. If nothing else is wrong with it besides what you mentioned, it'd probably be worth troubleshooting
All the phaser solenoid'* were cleaned/checked/replaced as well as the sensors.
It still kept throwing thee 0014, 0017 and 0106Manifold absolute....code.
A friend came by and we pulled the valve cover (again) and the cam looks to have jumped a tooth or two. With it'* poor service history I'm guessing that the tensioners/guides are worn and caused the jump.
I'll attach a pic but I can't seem to find the parts or the cam alignment tool that I need. Do you know if an older 1.4 would use the same parts/tool?
Thanks for all the help that you give us novices.
Oh well, it won't let me upload my pic but I can see where the cam gears are not sitting in the same position, one is off a bit from the other. I'm guessing it'* the intake came since the code is on bank one.
Last edited by CathedralCub; Mar 12, 2022 at 01:26 AM. Reason: CathedralCub corrected quoted sections for clarity
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,835
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CathedralCub
Uh, I thought that I messaged you days ago but somehow it must have been sent to the moon.
2019 Chevy spark 1.4 drive ability issues original post.
Help! 2019 Chevy Spark 1.4L-idling, drivability issues. I own a spark with 77K miles which keeps throwing p0014/ B Camshaft position timing over advanced, p0017 Crankshaft position camshaft position correlation bank 1 sensor B, and p0507 idle air control system rpm codes at the same time.
I have changed (the parts changer in me) one of the cam position sensors, a crank PS, a variable timing solenoid, the PVC valve, the throttle body and the idle air sensor . I have checked the other sensors, and checked for vacuum leaks (3X) but it continues to throw those codes and the idle speed jumps from 1000 to 2000, occasionally stalling at lights or upon start-up.
The dealer wanted to pull the valve cover to see if everything'* in place but it runs good otherwise so I felt it would be a thousand dollars wasted. In desperation I pulled the valve cover and saw a lot of sludge build up so I pulled the oil pan and cleaned and flushed the sludge out the best I could.
What am I missing? I'm ready to put another engine in it thinking that it'* been run hard and not maintained, (I just acquired it). That could rule out all but the electrical, but that'* kind of crazy. Please, smarter minds prevail. thank you
Your reply
If it can't get the cams phased properly it will run poorly, and it probably has some provisions built into its programming to help it try to keep running in such a situation so that it can be taken to a mechanic soon.
Here'* what I see:
- The car is a 2019, therefore about two years old
- The car has 77,000 miles on it, therefore 38,500 miles per year
- 38,500 miles per year is a lot of miles, ~3,000 per month
A car that gets driven that much probably didn't do much of it slowly. For it to be sludged up that bad I'd guess it seldom or never got an oil change. Sludged up cam phasers will generate your code.
If you can drive it, I suggest you de-sludge it as best as you can then put fresh oil and filter in it and take it out on the highway for 50 miles on the highway. Then change the oil and filter and take it out for another hundred miles and see if it starts to clear up. Maybe 200.
Fresh oil might work its way into sludged places and fix it.
Otherwise you might have to dig deeper. If nothing else is wrong with it besides what you mentioned, it'd probably be worth troubleshooting
At that point I polled the valve cover and the oil pan and cleaned all the sludge best I could.
All the phaser solenoid'* were cleaned/checked/replaced as well as the sensors.
It still kept throwing thee 0014, 0017 and 0106Manifold absolute....code.
A friend came by and we pulled the valve cover (again) and the cam looks to have jumped a tooth or two. With it'* poor service history I'm guessing that the tensioners/guides are worn and caused the jump.
I'll attach a pic but I can't seem to find the parts or the cam alignment tool that I need. Do you know if an older 1.4 would use the same parts/tool?
Thanks for all the help that you give us novices.
Oh well, it won't let me upload my pic but I can see where the cam gears are not sitting in the same position, one is off a bit from the other. I'm guessing it'* the intake came since the code is on bank one.
Uh, I thought that I messaged you days ago but somehow it must have been sent to the moon.
2019 Chevy spark 1.4 drive ability issues original post.
Help! 2019 Chevy Spark 1.4L-idling, drivability issues. I own a spark with 77K miles which keeps throwing p0014/ B Camshaft position timing over advanced, p0017 Crankshaft position camshaft position correlation bank 1 sensor B, and p0507 idle air control system rpm codes at the same time.
I have changed (the parts changer in me) one of the cam position sensors, a crank PS, a variable timing solenoid, the PVC valve, the throttle body and the idle air sensor . I have checked the other sensors, and checked for vacuum leaks (3X) but it continues to throw those codes and the idle speed jumps from 1000 to 2000, occasionally stalling at lights or upon start-up.
The dealer wanted to pull the valve cover to see if everything'* in place but it runs good otherwise so I felt it would be a thousand dollars wasted. In desperation I pulled the valve cover and saw a lot of sludge build up so I pulled the oil pan and cleaned and flushed the sludge out the best I could.
What am I missing? I'm ready to put another engine in it thinking that it'* been run hard and not maintained, (I just acquired it). That could rule out all but the electrical, but that'* kind of crazy. Please, smarter minds prevail. thank you
Your reply
If it can't get the cams phased properly it will run poorly, and it probably has some provisions built into its programming to help it try to keep running in such a situation so that it can be taken to a mechanic soon.
Here'* what I see:
- The car is a 2019, therefore about two years old
- The car has 77,000 miles on it, therefore 38,500 miles per year
- 38,500 miles per year is a lot of miles, ~3,000 per month
A car that gets driven that much probably didn't do much of it slowly. For it to be sludged up that bad I'd guess it seldom or never got an oil change. Sludged up cam phasers will generate your code.
If you can drive it, I suggest you de-sludge it as best as you can then put fresh oil and filter in it and take it out on the highway for 50 miles on the highway. Then change the oil and filter and take it out for another hundred miles and see if it starts to clear up. Maybe 200.
Fresh oil might work its way into sludged places and fix it.
Otherwise you might have to dig deeper. If nothing else is wrong with it besides what you mentioned, it'd probably be worth troubleshooting
At that point I polled the valve cover and the oil pan and cleaned all the sludge best I could.
All the phaser solenoid'* were cleaned/checked/replaced as well as the sensors.
It still kept throwing thee 0014, 0017 and 0106Manifold absolute....code.
A friend came by and we pulled the valve cover (again) and the cam looks to have jumped a tooth or two. With it'* poor service history I'm guessing that the tensioners/guides are worn and caused the jump.
I'll attach a pic but I can't seem to find the parts or the cam alignment tool that I need. Do you know if an older 1.4 would use the same parts/tool?
Thanks for all the help that you give us novices.
Oh well, it won't let me upload my pic but I can see where the cam gears are not sitting in the same position, one is off a bit from the other. I'm guessing it'* the intake came since the code is on bank one.
I see from your quote of me that we're talking about the same car and issue in two different threads. I'll merge them.
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True Car Nut
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,835
Likes: 1,012
From: Earth
Okay corrected quotes.
Feel free to use the [Quote] button at the bottom instead of copy/paste. It makes it easier for everyone else to see who is saying what.
This isn't a hard and fast rule or anything, it will just make your posts easier for others to digest, and then they'll be more likely to respond and assist.
Feel free to use the [Quote] button at the bottom instead of copy/paste. It makes it easier for everyone else to see who is saying what.
This isn't a hard and fast rule or anything, it will just make your posts easier for others to digest, and then they'll be more likely to respond and assist.
Senior Member
True Car Nut
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,835
Likes: 1,012
From: Earth
Okay back to the task at hand:
Do you know that it has skipped a tooth or is this an assumption and/or guess?
Okay, good to know what you found.
Since we're still troubleshooting, we'll need to know which ones were cleaned, which were checked, and which were replaced.
- P0014 - Bank 1 exhaust camshaft more advanced than commanded
- P0017 - Crankshaft position sensor does not correlate with Bank 1 exhaust camshaft
- P0106 - MAP sensor reading erratic and/or readings don't correlate with changes in engine load
How was this determined? Counting teeth and links? Marks? Etc.?
"guessing" probably isn't the best way to go about this.
Yeah they are probably a dealer-only part on an engine this new.
I don't, maybe someone else here does.
Make sure you're clicking the upload button at the upper-right corner of the upload dialogue box.
You only have one bank. P0014 and P0017 are for the exhaust camshaft position. The exhaust camshaft is the one on the same side of the engine as the exhaust manifold.
I am concerned that this is not getting diagnosed properly. Someone with the right tool could, probably for an hour'* labor, tell you if the cam phasers are functioning properly by commanding different angles and recording the responses, and then checking if those responses are an adequate range even if the range is off. That tells if the phasers are working properly even with a skipped cam gear. If it is supposed to phase from -5 degrees to +5 degrees (for example), and it is actually phasing from 2 degrees to 12 degrees, voila' the phaser is working and the cam gear is out of time. I know it got poorly maintained in its past, but cam gears skipping happens so seldomly that I usually default to doubting that it happened unless I hear that a proper diagnosis of this was done.
LOL I don't know about all that, but thanks for the compliment! I'll give a few answers and let you decide which are your favorite:
1. From GMForum of course!
2. School of hard knocks.
3. Genetics.
4. An unusual history of vehicle ownership.
5. Friends/family/acquaintances unusual history of vehicle ownership.
Do you know that it has skipped a tooth or is this an assumption and/or guess?
- P0017 - Crankshaft position sensor does not correlate with Bank 1 exhaust camshaft
- P0106 - MAP sensor reading erratic and/or readings don't correlate with changes in engine load
I don't, maybe someone else here does.
Make sure you're clicking the upload button at the upper-right corner of the upload dialogue box.
I am concerned that this is not getting diagnosed properly. Someone with the right tool could, probably for an hour'* labor, tell you if the cam phasers are functioning properly by commanding different angles and recording the responses, and then checking if those responses are an adequate range even if the range is off. That tells if the phasers are working properly even with a skipped cam gear. If it is supposed to phase from -5 degrees to +5 degrees (for example), and it is actually phasing from 2 degrees to 12 degrees, voila' the phaser is working and the cam gear is out of time. I know it got poorly maintained in its past, but cam gears skipping happens so seldomly that I usually default to doubting that it happened unless I hear that a proper diagnosis of this was done.
1. From GMForum of course!
2. School of hard knocks.
3. Genetics.
4. An unusual history of vehicle ownership.
5. Friends/family/acquaintances unusual history of vehicle ownership.
Last edited by CathedralCub; Mar 12, 2022 at 02:39 AM. Reason: Ecchanged "sordid" for "unusual" twice after looking up the meaning of "sordid". Also removed an extra "happens"