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What kind of lifters?.

Old Feb 28, 2021 | 12:20 PM
  #1  
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Default What kind of lifters?.

Ok here'* the(kinda)short version.i have a ninety two buick roadmaster,which needed a new head gasket.without having any prior training, absolutely no knowledge of,no past experience in,and no help(other than yt,and a couple neighborly advises)I took on the job myself(started it back in Sept 2020).after many hours,over several months,I think I might be close to being done.ive got it pretty much put back together,but I have to back track.it does start and I believe the timing is close,but it'* not drive able anywhere outside my block.whn I did drive it around the block,it held 1000rpm.but as it got hotter the rpm dropped to wanting to cut off.also while driving,I had very low acceration.i think it'* because the valve lash(setting)is wrong.when I got to the valve setting the first time,I did some YouTube research and found that I have solid lifters.because when I bought the car seven/eight years ago,from a dealership,it didn't come with the cam card.so everything'* been pretty much assumption.i did the standard push down on the pushrod to see if there'* extra movement,checking if the lifters are hydro.no movement,so I assume solid lifters.so with a feeler gauge,I set intake at 16,and exhaust 18 cold start(per suggestion from youtuber).that didn't work,so now I'm questioning,do I have factory solid lifters,or hydro lifters?.the car is a 1992 buick roadmaster.5.7l v8.since I had the car,seven yrs,I'm the only one done engine work on it,and that was change the head gaskets(which I won't know if I did that right until I'm able to drive it).
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Old Mar 1, 2021 | 12:52 AM
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It didn't come from the factory with solid lifters. They were hydraulic.

What happened to the engine to require a head gasket replacement?

How do we know that the other head gasket isn't also bad?

How many miles are on this car?

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Old Mar 1, 2021 | 04:39 PM
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i dont know what caused a blown head gasket,im assuming they were just old.when i did change it,i changed both of them at the same time.ive had the car for for close to eight years,and one day last spring,it just started acting up.i started off changing the little parts,then went on to changing some bigger parts.eventually i was told it was a blown head gasket.so instead a changing one,i changed them both.its got 185k on it.in fact,when i was doing the heads,i went on an changed the timing chain and sprockets as well.when i did get to the valves,putting the back in correctly,.i honestly had no idea what kind they were.i tried the push down on the rocker arm test.with the push rod attached,and got no extra movement play,i automatically assumed they had to be solid lifters.so i initially set them as solid lifters.now that i know what they really are,im already in the process of readjusting them to hydro setting.please also keep in mind,i know exactly nothing about cars.so when i started this project,i was litterally flying blind.the only tools i had to work with was a twenty dollar walmart socket set.everything i learned,every tool i had to buy,and every part i had to wait on in the mail,was purely from"on the job"training.without the help of amazon,rockauto,,youtube,and a couple other resources,i dont think i couldve even gotten this far.like i said,i started in sept.,2020.i cant recall a time in my life,where ive ever been so tested.i cant even recall a time where i had to outsmart an reachable screw or bolt,or even try to get a part to fit back in creating homemade gadgets.,but yet here i am,ready to wrap this job up,and move on.thank you so much for your feedback.
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Old Mar 2, 2021 | 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by diggydigg
i dont know what caused a blown head gasket,im assuming they were just old
That doesn't happen. It had to be assembled wrong, get hot, or be defective. Since you've had it quite a while I'll discount the "defective" option.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
i changed both of them at the same time
Good to know.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
ive had the car for for close to eight years,and one day last spring,it just started acting up
. . . "acting up" as in what symptoms?

Originally Posted by diggydigg
i started off changing the little parts,then went on to changing some bigger parts
What parts?

Originally Posted by diggydigg
eventually i was told it was a blown head gasket
Told by who?

After what testing?

Originally Posted by diggydigg
instead a changing one,i changed them both
Good idea except for whether or not they needed to be changed.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
when i was doing the heads,i went on an changed the timing chain and sprockets as well
An out-of-time cam could lead to the symptoms you describe. How did you keep the cam timed properly through this process?

Originally Posted by diggydigg
when i did get to the valves,putting the back in correctly,.i honestly had no idea what kind they were
Did you track each valve and make sure they went back into the same ports as they came from?

Why did the valves come out in the first place?

Was any work done to the heads?

Did someone run a straightedge over the head'* mating surface to see if it is straight?

Originally Posted by diggydigg
please also keep in mind,i know exactly nothing about cars.so when i started this project,i was litterally flying blind.the only tools i had to work with was a twenty dollar walmart socket set
Apologies in advance for asking:

Are you using a quality "click" or digital torque wrench?

When using the torque wrench, are any sockets and extensions quality units (cheap sockets and especially extensions affect torque readings) like Snap-On or Craftsman etc. not Walmart or Harbor Freight etc.?

Is the torque wrench 1/2" drive for torquing above 20 foot-pounds and 3/8" drive for torquing up to 20 foot pounds (240 inch pounds) ?

Originally Posted by diggydigg
everything i learned,every tool i had to buy,and every part i had to wait on in the mail,was purely from"on the job"training
Good to know . . . and also this is much of the way a lot of us have learned stuff.
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Old Mar 4, 2021 | 02:14 AM
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first,i would like to say,thank you for your concerns.the guys over at the buick forum has been helping me out as well.it shouldnt hurt to get a second opinion.between this forum and the other forum,im completely convinced you folks know your field of expertise.with that said,i will answer your questions, as far as what made the gasket(*) go bad,i havent the slightest clue.it pretty much started with the car not accelerating properly.but once i got it going then it would pick up the pace.then from there.it went to not wanting to start for hours while the engine was hot.i would crank it and crank it,but no start.once the engine cooled off,then it would start. not knowing what the exact problem,i started throwing new parts on it .i changed the iac valve,tps sensor,map sensor,o2 sensor,new plugs,new battery,air filter,gas filter,fuel injectors,tbi rebuild kit w/ diaphram,distibutor cap(not spark plug lines),pvc plug,thermostat,vacuum lines,egr vavle,and a couple other small things.i wanted to change/or clean out the catalyst,but i couldnt get it off. i thought that was one of the reasons why the engine was running so hot in such a little bit of travel time. eventually one of my friends(whom is not a certified mechanic,but knew more about cars than i) told me it was a blown head gasket.the test i saw him do was,take the radiator cap off,and see if the liquid was bubbling up,then he put his cheek to the mouth of it and said he felt air coming from it.then he showed me some fluid coming out the tail pipe.he also showed me the underside of the oil cap,but that wasnt milky looking.he said he could fix it for fifteen hundred,and it would take about a week.but bc im out of work due to the sickness,i decided to do it my self.but when i did make it down to the gaskets,they were beat up pretty bad. as far as keeping the cam timed properly...what??.never heard of it.its pretty much safe to say,i completely overlooked that part.track each valve to go back where they came from.....what??.never heard of it.its pretty much safe to say,i completely overlooked that part.i took the valves out when i took off the heads(which by the way,was nowhere near an easy task).work done to the heads....what??.never heard of it.its pretty much safe to say,i completely overlooked that part.did someone run a straight hedge over the heads mating surface....what??,never heard of it,its pretty much safe to say,icompletely overlooked that part.look,this may sound comical,but i really did not know you had to do all that.i just wanted to change the headgaskets,and put the same parts back in,and put it all back together,by myself. i did buy a pittsburgh 1/2in click torque wrench(which turned out to be way to big to fit under the hood)(per suggestion of my friend).idid end up breaking a couple/few sockets and ext.,but just ended up replacing them. with that said an done,i do have one further question(for now).because i used the same lifters,the ones that i have,are already pumped up(which is why i kept thinking i had solid lifters).how do i preload the vavles without having to remove them,or depression them?.im trying to set vavle lash.one suggestion i read was to get lifter on the lobe,remove any lash,and then give it the 1/4 turn,then turn engine ninety degrees,and do the next one,in the firing order. i want to say thanks again for your help.
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Old Mar 5, 2021 | 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by diggydigg
as far as what made the gasket(*) go bad,i havent the slightest clue.it pretty much started with the car not accelerating properly.but once i got it going then it would pick up the pace.then from there.it went to not wanting to start for hours while the engine was hot.i would crank it and crank it,but no start.once the engine cooled off,then it would start.
This, by itself, doesn't tell me blown head gasket.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
i changed the iac valve,tps sensor,map sensor,o2 sensor,new plugs,new battery,air filter,gas filter,fuel injectors,tbi rebuild kit w/ diaphram,distibutor cap(not spark plug lines),pvc plug,thermostat,vacuum lines,egr vavle,and a couple other small things.
Just verifying: None of this was diagnosed like with measurements etc., just swapped, and the performance issues continued, right?

Originally Posted by diggydigg
i wanted to change/or clean out the catalyst,but i couldnt get it off. i thought that was one of the reasons why the engine was running so hot in such a little bit of travel time.
Like the catalytic converter?

Originally Posted by diggydigg
eventually one of my friends(whom is not a certified mechanic,but knew more about cars than i) told me it was a blown head gasket.the test i saw him do was,take the radiator cap off,and see if the liquid was bubbling up,then he put his cheek to the mouth of it and said he felt air coming from it.
To diagnose from this, I'd need to know more about how much air and bubbles etc. and this is difficult to articulate across the Internet. The proper way to test for a blown head gasket through the cooling system is to use a head gasket tester. This is a kit with special fluid in it that turns colors when exhaust gases pass through it.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
then he showed me some fluid coming out the tail pipe
Blown head gasket would be steam coming out.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
he also showed me the underside of the oil cap,but that wasnt milky looking
So no coolant in the crankcase.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
he said he could fix it for fifteen hundred,and it would take about a week
Sounds like a guarantee to me. I'd have to doubt this guarantee, as it doesn't sound like your friend has diagnosed completely . . . and likely hasn't worked in the cost to machine the heads if they are warped from the event that blew the head gaskets.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
i decided to do it my self
Did you acquire a manual that includes process steps and torque values etc.?

Originally Posted by diggydigg
but when i did make it down to the gaskets,they were beat up pretty bad
"Beat up pretty bad" . . . ? Like what do you mean? It'* hard to damage a head gasket when it is sandwiched between the head and the block.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
as far as keeping the cam timed properly...what??.never heard of it.its pretty much safe to say,i completely overlooked that part
Yeah, the relationship between the cam and the crank needs to be maintained.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
track each valve to go back where they came from.....what??.never heard of it.its pretty much safe to say,i completely overlooked that part.i took the valves out when i took off the heads(which by the way,was nowhere near an easy task).
This is a great measure if you aren't re-machining everything. If you put everything back where it came from you don't suffer from slightly different wear patterns over time. While doing this it is also good to do the same with bolts, lifters, etc.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
work done to the heads....what??.never heard of it.its pretty much safe to say,i completely overlooked that part.
Like machine work to repair the head if it is warped, worn, or damaged.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
did someone run a straight hedge over the heads mating surface....what??,never heard of it,its pretty much safe to say,icompletely overlooked that part
This is to verify if the mating surface is flat. It could be warped by heat.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
look,this may sound comical,but i really did not know you had to do all that.i just wanted to change the headgaskets,and put the same parts back in,and put it all back together,by myself.
I totally understand. These are all items that are necessary to do a proper repair.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
i did buy a pittsburgh 1/2in click torque wrench(which turned out to be way to big to fit under the hood)(per suggestion of my friend)
This is good. I would recommend with a Pittsburg that you test it to see if it is close to accurate.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
idid end up breaking a couple/few sockets and ext.
Ummm, something is wrong here, or the sockets and extensions are super cheap.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
i do have one further question(for now).because i used the same lifters,the ones that i have,are already pumped up(which is why i kept thinking i had solid lifters).how do i preload the vavles without having to remove them,or depression them?.im trying to set vavle lash
They don't hold pressure forever, certainly not long enough to have any pressure between shutting the engine off and removing the rocker cover.

Originally Posted by diggydigg
one suggestion i read was to get lifter on the lobe,remove any lash,and then give it the 1/4 turn,then turn engine ninety degrees,and do the next one,in the firing order
Procedures are different by engine. Not sure where you read the suggestion, but I would replace that suggestion with a different one: Get a manual that covers this vehicle'* engine overhaul details.
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