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Park Avenue Limp Mode Cause

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Old 03-08-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by EarlD
I cannot find a definitive answer as to where the PCM is actually located. Not that I mind the work of looking - I just don't want to do wasted work. I have found where the PCM is in the engine compartment under the air filter, but I have also found that it is under the dash, passenger side, behind the glove box. Anyone know for sure?
I just looked around and found several references to your generation of Park Avenue (1991-1996) having the ECM against the firewall inside the cabin behind the glove box.

Originally Posted by EarlD
I think CathedralCub may have a point in that he confirms a troubleshooting point I read a few days ago: Was there any work done on the vehicle just prior to the current problem starting? I might have been misleading, but the "limp mode" was within minutes of operating time from the time the water pump was replaced and the oil pressure sensor being replaced, although those minutes were a day or so later than the water pump repair.
Making more sense now. I am wondering if it ever shifted properly after the repairs . . . like if those minutes were all idling and filling fluids etc., then first drive has the transaxle limping.

Originally Posted by EarlD
Which brings me to another point on the wiring diagrams: I can't find the oil pressure sending unit on either set of wiring diagrams (Haynes' or carfixer007'*). I would assume the wiring would go to the PCM, but which pin at the PCM? I do want to confirm that the wiring for the oil pressure sensor was not damaged when the power steering pump broke the sensor. Knowing where the wires run to would be a great help.
One thing you are running into with documentation on this vehicle is that the factory service manual sometimes missed some of the details AND they weren't electronic back in 1993/1994 when the manuals were being printed. In today'* world you end up with best-effort manuals based on a discovery process (as opposed to a core based on original engineering documentation).if they are aftermarket, and scans of paper manuals (that had most of what you need, but not all) if they are the originals.

You might be better off time wise to pull the right-front wheel off and look around behind the fender for anything obvious (and look from the top also). With the PCM near the power steering pump (as the crow flies), the bulk of its cabling is probably nearby as well and got bumped or damaged or something.
Old 03-08-2019, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by carfixer007
If you look at the diagram you'll see the connector at the trans has it'* location. Open the hood and on the right side (as you are looking from the front) under the cruise control servo (it has the cable coming out that goes to the throttle) you'll see the rectangular plug that goes into the upper part of the transaxle. Unplug that and probe the 'F' and 'E' terminals of the female. This is the solenoid. Let me know what you get.
I will attempt to attach a photo of the plug I checked and maybe confirmation can be given that I was in the correct spot.

I disconnected the wiring harness from the transaxle, and to be honest I wasn't 100% sure if I was to check the harness or the inside of the transaxle port - I checked both. Also, I was not absolutely sure of what E was and what B was, but according to the article provided and the picture of the plug, I tested pins at what would amount to the 12 o'clock and 7 o'clock positions. The harness showed infinite ohms. The dvom was set on 200 ohms and when the transaxle port was probed it showed 20.31.

The port I probed is the one in the lower left of the image. The photo was taken from the front of the vehicle. The cruise control servo is about 12 o'clock to the GM label so I am not convinced I found the connector which I was told to probe. I do not see a connector under or around the servo.

Old 03-08-2019, 02:39 PM
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Yes PCM is on the passenger side either behind the glove box or the kick panel. When you get to it you'll find the connectors are labeled A, B etc. They are numbered just like we read, from the upper left corner is pin 1 and as you go across and at the last you start the next row and so on.
Going by memory I don't know what you could have damaged in the WP and oil sender repair that would have caused a failure in the B solenoid and not effect the others as well. I think it'* a coincidence. Before going after the PCM I suggest you check the resistance of the B solenoid. My money is it'* open.
Old 03-08-2019, 02:45 PM
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CathedralCub, I got under the car and looked at the oil pressure sensor and the wiring. Ironically, there appears to be a wire that comes off the harness for the oil sensor which goes to what I think is the speed sensor on the transaxle. The speed sensor is about 6 or so inches from the oil sensor.

Extremely limited work area - can't really get to it from the top or the bottom.

Think I will take your suggestion and take the wheel off and see what I find.

Thanks for the observations.
Old 03-08-2019, 02:47 PM
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carfixer007, I just posted about the solenoid - I think I did as you instructed. Let me know please what you think of the findings.
Old 03-08-2019, 02:53 PM
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That is the correct connector. You need to probe the pins on the female (transaxle) and not the harness. The solenoid is inside the transmission. If you read 20 ohms and were on the correct spade pins of the connector then we need to check the wiring. I'm not sure if you probed the correct ones. Did the wires match the diagram? If I remember correctly the plug will be labeled with the letters.
Old 03-08-2019, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by carfixer007
That is the correct connector. You need to probe the pins on the female (transaxle) and not the harness. The solenoid is inside the transmission. If you read 20 ohms and were on the correct spade pins of the connector then we need to check the wiring. I'm not sure if you probed the correct ones. Did the wires match the diagram? If I remember correctly the plug will be labeled with the letters.
I cannot find any labeling of the wiring - not on the transaxle or the wiring harness. I used the article provided by Tech II which gave pin locations of E at 12 o'clock, D at 2, F at 4, A at 5 B at 7, G at 8 and c at 10.

I went back and used small alligator clips on E and B - if the above is correct - and got 20.7 ohms. I assume that does not indicate a bad solenoid?
Old 03-08-2019, 03:44 PM
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That would be about right for the solenoid. Check the others since you have it open and be sure we are looking at them all. Just in case we are probing the wrong one.
Old 03-08-2019, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by carfixer007
That would be about right for the solenoid. Check the others since you have it open and be sure we are looking at them all. Just in case we are probing the wrong one.
carfixer007, this is an excellent point especially when coupled with your comment regarding the wire colors. Experienced mechanics may have no doubt about "how do you look at a connection", but I just possibly made a very big error - it does depend on which side of a connector are you looking at. In the photo below, I would consider that to be the side I should be looking at. On the actual connector and with the color wires, it makes all the difference in the world with huge possible errors being made.

Visualize the connector being the face of a clock. At the 7 o'clock position the wire color in reality is a "green" wire. For the B/E probe to be correct, the 7 o'clock wire had to be a "yellow/black" wire. The only way for the B/E probe to be correct is to look at the "back" of the connector - doing that the B/E probe is correct. Again, looking at the connector as in the below image, the B/E is not correct to check solenoid B.




The image above shows the "backside" of the connector and the "yellow/black" wire, at the 7 o'clock position, which is correct for the probe of solenoid B.

This might be a useless rant but to me as a novice, I realized that the color of wires really do matter and that you can't just go by a lettered picture of connector. Either way, I did as carfixer007 suggested and check the continuity of all the pins inside the female part of the connector and I found everything to be about 20 ohms. I don't think I have a transaxle problem if solenoid B was supposed to be the problem.


Old 03-08-2019, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by EarlD
carfixer007, this is an excellent point especially when coupled with your comment regarding the wire colors. Experienced mechanics may have no doubt about "how do you look at a connection", but I just possibly made a very big error - it does depend on which side of a connector are you looking at. In the photo below, I would consider that to be the side I should be looking at. On the actual connector and with the color wires, it makes all the difference in the world with huge possible errors being made.

Visualize the connector being the face of a clock. At the 7 o'clock position the wire color in reality is a "green" wire. For the B/E probe to be correct, the 7 o'clock wire had to be a "yellow/black" wire. The only way for the B/E probe to be correct is to look at the "back" of the connector - doing that the B/E probe is correct. Again, looking at the connector as in the below image, the B/E is not correct to check solenoid B.




The image above shows the "backside" of the connector and the "yellow/black" wire, at the 7 o'clock position, which is correct for the probe of solenoid B.

This might be a useless rant but to me as a novice, I realized that the color of wires really do matter and that you can't just go by a lettered picture of connector. Either way, I did as carfixer007 suggested and check the continuity of all the pins inside the female part of the connector and I found everything to be about 20 ohms. I don't think I have a transaxle problem if solenoid B was supposed to be the problem.
It'* something that can take time and experience to get good at. I wasn't sure if you were looking at the connector correctly. When a procedure says 'back probing' it means at the back of the plug and not from the front. At any rate, it should be faster to fix not needing to get inside the transaxle. Later I'll upload the flow chart for that solenoid circuit although you can probable figure it with just the diagram. Those flow charts are also called trouble trees and we techs have a saying.....follow the chart and you'll likely get into trouble. They can lead you to replace something that is not bad due to the fact that we are dealing with low voltage circuits and just a little corrosion, loose connection or even the pin tension of a connector can read perfectly fine with your meter but not be good under load. If a resistance test is bad we know it'* bad but if it reads good it can still be bad.
We'll get through this. We will do simple tests and hopefully it'll show us where the problem is. If not we will do load testing. Here'* a guy who is good with electronics and this video will help explain some of what I just said.


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