Park Avenue Limp Mode Cause
#21
Senior Member
True Car Nut
I cannot find a definitive answer as to where the PCM is actually located. Not that I mind the work of looking - I just don't want to do wasted work. I have found where the PCM is in the engine compartment under the air filter, but I have also found that it is under the dash, passenger side, behind the glove box. Anyone know for sure?
I think CathedralCub may have a point in that he confirms a troubleshooting point I read a few days ago: Was there any work done on the vehicle just prior to the current problem starting? I might have been misleading, but the "limp mode" was within minutes of operating time from the time the water pump was replaced and the oil pressure sensor being replaced, although those minutes were a day or so later than the water pump repair.
Which brings me to another point on the wiring diagrams: I can't find the oil pressure sending unit on either set of wiring diagrams (Haynes' or carfixer007'*). I would assume the wiring would go to the PCM, but which pin at the PCM? I do want to confirm that the wiring for the oil pressure sensor was not damaged when the power steering pump broke the sensor. Knowing where the wires run to would be a great help.
You might be better off time wise to pull the right-front wheel off and look around behind the fender for anything obvious (and look from the top also). With the PCM near the power steering pump (as the crow flies), the bulk of its cabling is probably nearby as well and got bumped or damaged or something.
#22
Junior Member
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Thread Starter
If you look at the diagram you'll see the connector at the trans has it'* location. Open the hood and on the right side (as you are looking from the front) under the cruise control servo (it has the cable coming out that goes to the throttle) you'll see the rectangular plug that goes into the upper part of the transaxle. Unplug that and probe the 'F' and 'E' terminals of the female. This is the solenoid. Let me know what you get.
I disconnected the wiring harness from the transaxle, and to be honest I wasn't 100% sure if I was to check the harness or the inside of the transaxle port - I checked both. Also, I was not absolutely sure of what E was and what B was, but according to the article provided and the picture of the plug, I tested pins at what would amount to the 12 o'clock and 7 o'clock positions. The harness showed infinite ohms. The dvom was set on 200 ohms and when the transaxle port was probed it showed 20.31.
The port I probed is the one in the lower left of the image. The photo was taken from the front of the vehicle. The cruise control servo is about 12 o'clock to the GM label so I am not convinced I found the connector which I was told to probe. I do not see a connector under or around the servo.
#23
Senior Member
Yes PCM is on the passenger side either behind the glove box or the kick panel. When you get to it you'll find the connectors are labeled A, B etc. They are numbered just like we read, from the upper left corner is pin 1 and as you go across and at the last you start the next row and so on.
Going by memory I don't know what you could have damaged in the WP and oil sender repair that would have caused a failure in the B solenoid and not effect the others as well. I think it'* a coincidence. Before going after the PCM I suggest you check the resistance of the B solenoid. My money is it'* open.
Going by memory I don't know what you could have damaged in the WP and oil sender repair that would have caused a failure in the B solenoid and not effect the others as well. I think it'* a coincidence. Before going after the PCM I suggest you check the resistance of the B solenoid. My money is it'* open.
#24
Junior Member
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Thread Starter
CathedralCub, I got under the car and looked at the oil pressure sensor and the wiring. Ironically, there appears to be a wire that comes off the harness for the oil sensor which goes to what I think is the speed sensor on the transaxle. The speed sensor is about 6 or so inches from the oil sensor.
Extremely limited work area - can't really get to it from the top or the bottom.
Think I will take your suggestion and take the wheel off and see what I find.
Thanks for the observations.
Extremely limited work area - can't really get to it from the top or the bottom.
Think I will take your suggestion and take the wheel off and see what I find.
Thanks for the observations.
#26
Senior Member
That is the correct connector. You need to probe the pins on the female (transaxle) and not the harness. The solenoid is inside the transmission. If you read 20 ohms and were on the correct spade pins of the connector then we need to check the wiring. I'm not sure if you probed the correct ones. Did the wires match the diagram? If I remember correctly the plug will be labeled with the letters.
#27
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
Thread Starter
That is the correct connector. You need to probe the pins on the female (transaxle) and not the harness. The solenoid is inside the transmission. If you read 20 ohms and were on the correct spade pins of the connector then we need to check the wiring. I'm not sure if you probed the correct ones. Did the wires match the diagram? If I remember correctly the plug will be labeled with the letters.
I went back and used small alligator clips on E and B - if the above is correct - and got 20.7 ohms. I assume that does not indicate a bad solenoid?
#29
Junior Member
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Thread Starter
Visualize the connector being the face of a clock. At the 7 o'clock position the wire color in reality is a "green" wire. For the B/E probe to be correct, the 7 o'clock wire had to be a "yellow/black" wire. The only way for the B/E probe to be correct is to look at the "back" of the connector - doing that the B/E probe is correct. Again, looking at the connector as in the below image, the B/E is not correct to check solenoid B.
The image above shows the "backside" of the connector and the "yellow/black" wire, at the 7 o'clock position, which is correct for the probe of solenoid B.
This might be a useless rant but to me as a novice, I realized that the color of wires really do matter and that you can't just go by a lettered picture of connector. Either way, I did as carfixer007 suggested and check the continuity of all the pins inside the female part of the connector and I found everything to be about 20 ohms. I don't think I have a transaxle problem if solenoid B was supposed to be the problem.
#30
Senior Member
carfixer007, this is an excellent point especially when coupled with your comment regarding the wire colors. Experienced mechanics may have no doubt about "how do you look at a connection", but I just possibly made a very big error - it does depend on which side of a connector are you looking at. In the photo below, I would consider that to be the side I should be looking at. On the actual connector and with the color wires, it makes all the difference in the world with huge possible errors being made.
Visualize the connector being the face of a clock. At the 7 o'clock position the wire color in reality is a "green" wire. For the B/E probe to be correct, the 7 o'clock wire had to be a "yellow/black" wire. The only way for the B/E probe to be correct is to look at the "back" of the connector - doing that the B/E probe is correct. Again, looking at the connector as in the below image, the B/E is not correct to check solenoid B.
The image above shows the "backside" of the connector and the "yellow/black" wire, at the 7 o'clock position, which is correct for the probe of solenoid B.
This might be a useless rant but to me as a novice, I realized that the color of wires really do matter and that you can't just go by a lettered picture of connector. Either way, I did as carfixer007 suggested and check the continuity of all the pins inside the female part of the connector and I found everything to be about 20 ohms. I don't think I have a transaxle problem if solenoid B was supposed to be the problem.
Visualize the connector being the face of a clock. At the 7 o'clock position the wire color in reality is a "green" wire. For the B/E probe to be correct, the 7 o'clock wire had to be a "yellow/black" wire. The only way for the B/E probe to be correct is to look at the "back" of the connector - doing that the B/E probe is correct. Again, looking at the connector as in the below image, the B/E is not correct to check solenoid B.
The image above shows the "backside" of the connector and the "yellow/black" wire, at the 7 o'clock position, which is correct for the probe of solenoid B.
This might be a useless rant but to me as a novice, I realized that the color of wires really do matter and that you can't just go by a lettered picture of connector. Either way, I did as carfixer007 suggested and check the continuity of all the pins inside the female part of the connector and I found everything to be about 20 ohms. I don't think I have a transaxle problem if solenoid B was supposed to be the problem.
We'll get through this. We will do simple tests and hopefully it'll show us where the problem is. If not we will do load testing. Here'* a guy who is good with electronics and this video will help explain some of what I just said.