1993 LeSabre Idle Rough after Code 18 After Repairs - Page 2 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


Buick When starting new posts, please specify YEAR, MAKE, MODEL, ENGINE type, and whatever modifications you have made.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-26-2011, 10:49 PM   #11
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
jwfirebird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: western,ny state
Posts: 9,616
Thanked 563 Times in 481 Posts
jwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond repute
Default

that doesnt sound significant really, half the country has to start their car in the very cold. your dad is right its a good idea to let it warm up a little while
jwfirebird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2011, 10:56 PM   #12
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 407
Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
Kimberly will become famous soon enoughKimberly will become famous soon enough
Default

I am betting that when I remove the pully I am going to find the vanes intact. Question, could the vane ring had slipped from the correct position? Is the vane ring aligned so that the pulses are in alignment with the crank shaft? If yes, then if the ring slips out of alignment with the crank, then the pulses are out of sync. I know a bit about electronics, this would be a phase shift of the pulses. It could be that I need to replace the harmonic balancer/pulley. What do you think of this line of thought?

Other than the harmonic balancer/pulley, it would have to be a faulty crank sensor even if it is a new one.
Kimberly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2011, 11:08 PM   #13
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 407
Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
Kimberly will become famous soon enoughKimberly will become famous soon enough
Default

Then again, it could be the new crank sensor; it was an after market, BWD and I have read that some of the after market sensors are not so good. Considering what is involved in replacing the crank sensor, I should have went with an AC-Delco. Any comments on the crank sensor brand?
Kimberly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 12:03 PM   #14
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
jwfirebird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: western,ny state
Posts: 9,616
Thanked 563 Times in 481 Posts
jwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond reputejwfirebird has a reputation beyond repute
Default

the ones ive put in and had no further trouble were wells brand, and i havent taken apart your specific engine down that far but i would think that ring or whatever would be aligned with a shear key to the crank. if that gets even a little distorted for whatever reason it can cause problems
jwfirebird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2011, 05:49 PM   #15
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 407
Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
Kimberly will become famous soon enoughKimberly will become famous soon enough
Default

I am going to go ahead and replace the timing gears and chain on this engine. Is it possible to remove the camshaft position magnet and place it in the new timing gear? I am wondering if the plastic has become brittle and it is not possible to remove the old one without damaging it. A new magnet is close to $30! What a scam! A little plastic holder and a magnet doesn't cost anywhere near that to make. I can get the timing gears and chain for $51.00.
Kimberly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 03:35 AM   #16
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 407
Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
Kimberly will become famous soon enoughKimberly will become famous soon enough
Default

Here is an update. I have removed the timing cover and inspected the alignment. The timing had not jump, the two circles; one on the timing gear, the other on the crank gear, align up as they should. The timing gear is worn as to be expected on such a high mileage car. Have everything to put it back together. I went ahead and switched out the new crank position sensor; it was a Duralast NOT a BWD. The harmonic balancer timing rings are OK, no bent vanes. They are attached to the pulley by four rivets and can not move.

My guess at this point is that the crank position sensor is partially working, allowing the car to start and run, but run rough. I was not sure I was going to be able to drive it into the shed it was running so rough. If I continue to get code 18 after putting it back together, I am just lost.
Kimberly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2012, 06:50 PM   #17
Retired Senior Admin

Expert Gearhead
 
Danthurs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sheboygan Wisconsin
Posts: 29,661
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 13 Posts
Danthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to allDanthurs is a name known to all
Default

I'm a bit late on this thread, so if any of this has come up, I'm sorry. I noticed the engine temp was low. If that sensor is not reading right, it will throw off the mixture. Check your fuel pressure. If that checks out, then look at the coils. I know you said you tested them and got 10 ohms, but did you check both sides of the coil? I've seen coils test OK, and then fail when hot. You can test them after being in the freezer, then warm them up in the oven or with a heat gun to about 150* and test again. Coils often test good cold and fail when hot.
Danthurs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 01:46 AM   #18
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 407
Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
Kimberly will become famous soon enoughKimberly will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danthurs View Post
I'm a bit late on this thread, so if any of this has come up, I'm sorry. I noticed the engine temp was low. If that sensor is not reading right, it will throw off the mixture. Check your fuel pressure. If that checks out, then look at the coils. I know you said you tested them and got 10 ohms, but did you check both sides of the coil? I've seen coils test OK, and then fail when hot. You can test them after being in the freezer, then warm them up in the oven or with a heat gun to about 150* and test again. Coils often test good cold and fail when hot.
The engine temp was low probably because I could not let it warm up to operating temperatures. I was close to cutting off on its own so I just took the readings. The temp sensor has been replaced.

My guess is it is the crank position sensor and I got a replacement even though it had just been replaced.
Kimberly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 02:06 AM   #19
Senior Member
Posts like a Turbo
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 407
Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
Kimberly will become famous soon enoughKimberly will become famous soon enough
Default

I locked the flywheel with a pair of vise grips and using an impact socket, a break-bar and a length of pipe managed to remove the cam bolt (book says torque is 74 ft-lbs). The old gear and chain slipped off easily. The problem is I can not get the new cam gear back on, it won't slip onto the key. Upon inspection it appears the cam gear and the crank gear are just a smidge out of alignment.

I rebuilt the engine in a Ford F-150, but that was out on the bench, not in the car and easy to align the timing. On Mum'* car, I replaced the timing chain with the engine in the car because it was an '83 with a phenolic gear (Buick should be ashamed of that) and it stripped out in a car park. In that case the timing was way off and I had to get everything back in alignment. In this case the timing did not jump so I was surprised that the timing gear and chain did not just slip back on but the gear is just a tad off of going onto the key.

So what does everyone think? Turn the crank a smidge and see if it will slide on? Or what?

P.*. the timing gear upon just sight inspection does not seem to be worn; it looks like the new one. I am thinking this job did not need to be done. I was not sure what was wrong with the engine running so rough and that strange Code 18 error (not fault but error).
Kimberly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2012, 06:49 AM   #20
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Smokerll is on a distinguished road
Default

If it was me, I'd put the old gear back on. Whats a smidge? If the timing marks were lined up on first inspection then I would think things in that area are ok, and who knows what that new gear fits. If it was off just a smidge, if its a small smidge I doubt that it would cause it to run that rough. While your in there you could put a new chain on. You didn't say anything about checking injectors or spark plugs. My guess is you will find a dead cylinder or two.
Smokerll is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1997 Buick LeSabre P0300 and P1406 with rough idle ymmot04 Buick 9 03-24-2014 08:28 AM
2003 Lesabre rough idle and studder on hills hausof5 Buick 11 03-04-2014 02:25 PM
'93 LeSabre Rough Idle Issue Kimberly Buick 7 10-25-2012 11:43 AM
94 LeSabre Stalling Rough Idle indplsin72 Buick 8 06-24-2011 09:25 PM
[1993 Bonneville Se] Rough idle CorradoT5 1992-1999 3 01-19-2007 02:51 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:55 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.