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Old 01-20-2010, 11:59 AM   #1
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Default No-start issue on '05 GXP...Suggestions?

I have an '05 Bonneville GXP that I just purchased 3 weeks ago.

From reviewing the forums these appear to be extremely dependable cars, however, I am experiencing a problem and want to see if anyone else has experienced something similar.

I am getting an occasional no-start condition. It seems (so far) to only occur when the vehicle has been sitting an hour or two (not cold and not fully warmed up).

You hit the key and it does nothing. The lights all come on and gauges move as expected as you go through the run position towards the start position. When you get to the start position, it does NOTHING. No click, nothing. The lights go out on the dash as you would normally expect, the DRL'* stay on as they normally do (meaning the battery is not loosing connection), but it does nothing.

If you keep trying it WILL eventually start (so far). When it does, it cranks and starts normally.

I did verify that the "Security" light is NOT coming on. I also tried moving the shifter in and out of park. (I have not yet been able to try starting in neutral yet (That'* a test for the next time it acts up).

Any suggestions, Ideas, or experiences?

Thanks,
Ken
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:53 PM   #2
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I did find someone else with an '01 Bonni experiencing a similar problem, but the fix hasn't been confirmed:

https://www.gmforum.com/showthread.p...ighlight=start
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Old 01-26-2010, 02:54 PM   #3
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His had a click though, while yours sounds like a PCM problem or battery connection.
Checking the voltage with ignition off would tell. Some GXP'* have reported TSB'* of corrosion at the battery ground lug.
Maybe your battery is on the way out. Our PCM has voltage protection. Some of it I haven't a clue, but one of them is to lock out the starter when voltage drops below a certain set point.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:49 PM   #4
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Having thought along the same lines as GXP Venom, I checked what I could, and doing as much of my own style battery test (Friday, while on lunch break, I went out, started the car 5 or 6 times, then took a nap for 20 minutes with the seat warmer on high...it was only 31* after all)

I was still being warmed, the voltage had not dropped much at all, and the car still started normally.

On monday evening, I went ahead and replaced the starter.

The job was not hard at all. If I had to do it again, I could probably do the whole thing in about 45 minutes, start to finish (If you've never looked for it, the starter is UNDER the intake manifold).

SO FAR (knock on wood...or my head, whichever you think is more effective...) I have not experienced a repeat of the no-start condition.

Hopefully, The situation has been resolved.

Thanks for the input!

Ken
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:51 PM   #5
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here is some service manual information that may help you. let me know which engine you have 3.8 or 4.6. then maybe i can find more specific info for you. Let me know if this helps any. It sucks that GM service manuals are designed with the need for tech 2 scan tool ($$$$$$).
I am new here so not real experienced with attaching files. So hopefully this worked.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:28 PM   #6
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[IMG]/IMG][/IMG]
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:40 PM   #7
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sorry having trouble getting this to work.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:41 PM   #8
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Symptoms - Engine Controls
Important Preliminary Checks Before Starting
Before using this section, perform Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle in Vehicle DTC Information to verify the following items:

The powertrain control module (PCM) and malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) (Service Engine Soon) are operating correctly.
There are no DTCs stored.
Ensure that the engine coolant temperature (ECT) is not above 130C (266F). This will cause the PCM to operate in the Engine Metal Overtemp Mode. While in this state, the PCM will turn OFF four cylinders at a time to prevent the engine coolant temperature from reaching damaging levels. Engine Metal Overtemp can be perceived as a lack of power, engine miss, or rough idle. If the engine is operating in the Engine Metal Overtemp mode, refer to DTC P1258 in Engine Cooling.
Scan tool data is within the normal operating range. Refer to Scan Tool Data List .
Verify the customers complaint to reference the correct symptom table.
Visual/Physical Check
Several of the symptom procedures call for a careful Visual/physical check. This check can lead to correcting a problem without further checks and can save valuable time. This check includes the following items:

PCM grounds for being clean, tight, and in the proper location. Refer to Master Electrical Component List and Power and Grounding Component Views in Wiring Systems.
Vacuum hoses for splits, kinks, proper routing, and connections. Refer to the Vehicle Emission Control Information label. Check thoroughly for any type of leak or restriction. Refer to Emission Hose Routing Diagram .
Intake air system for the following conditions:
Dirty or damaged air cleaner element or housing
Damaged or collapsed intake air ducts.
Poor intake air system connections
Air leaks at the throttle body and/or intake manifold.
Throttle body contaminants or deposits.
Accelerator cable binding or damage.
Ignition system wiring for incorrect routing and/or poor connections.
System wiring for routing near high frequency devices (electromagnetic interference (EMI) condition).
Engine cooling system leaks. Refer to Loss of Coolant in Engine Cooling.
The following Symptom tables are located in this section:

Hard Start
Surges/Chuggles
Lack of Power, Sluggishness, or Sponginess
Detonation/Spark Knock
Hesitation, Sag, Stumble
Cuts Out, Misses
Poor Fuel Economy
Poor Fuel Fill Quality
Rough, Unstable, or Incorrect Idle and Stalling
Dieseling, Run-On
Backfire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Document ID# 1393474
2005 Pontiac Bonneville
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:43 PM   #9
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Intermittent Conditions
Inspections
Action

DEFINITION: The condition is not currently present but is indicated in the DTC history.

OR

There is a customer concern, but the symptom cannot currently be duplicated, if the condition is not DTC related.

Preliminary
Refer to Important Preliminary Inspection Before Beginning in Symptoms - Engine Controls.
The fault must be present to locate a problem using the DTC table. If a fault is intermittent, the use of DTC tables may result in the replacement of good parts.

Visual/Physical
This step is an important aid for locating a condition without extensive testing. Perform a thorough visual and physical inspection of the following components:

Wiring harness for damage or cuts
A misrouted harness that is too close to high voltage or high current devices such as the following:
Secondary ignition components
Motors
Generators
Vacuum hoses for the following conditions:
Proper routing
Proper connections
Splits in the hose or the connections
Kinks
The control module and body grounds are clean and tight.
Battery connections are clean and tight.
Charging system for proper operation--Refer to Charging System Test in Engine Electrical.

Harness/Connector Test
Many intermittent open or shorted circuits come and go with harness and connector movement caused by vibration, engine torque, bumps and rough pavement, etc. Test for this type of condition by performing the applicable procedure from the following list:

Move the related connectors and wiring while monitoring the appropriate scan tool data.
Move the related connectors and wiring with the component commanded ON and OFF, with the scan tool. Observe the components operation.
With the engine running, move the related connectors and wiring while monitoring engine operation.

If harness or connector movement affects the data displayed, the component and system operation, or the engine operation, inspect and repair the harness or connections as necessary.

Electrical Connections or Wiring
Poor electrical connections and terminal tension or wiring faults cause most intermittents. Perform a careful inspection of the suspected circuit for the following:

Inspect for incorrect mating of the connector halves, or terminals not fully seated in the connector body, backed-out.
Inspect for improperly formed or damaged terminals. Test for incorrect terminal tension.
Inspect for poor terminal to wire connections including terminals crimped over insulation. This requires removing the terminal from the connector body.
Inspect for corrosion or water intrusion. Pierced or damaged insulation can allow moisture to enter the wiring. The conductor can corrode inside the insulation with little visible evidence. Look for swollen and stiff sections of wire in the suspect circuits.
Inspect for wires that are broken inside the insulation.
Inspect the harness for pinched, cut, or rubbed through wiring.
Make sure the wiring does not come in contact with hot exhaust components.

Refer to Testing for Intermittent Conditions and Poor Connections and Connector Repairs in Wiring Systems.

Control Module Power and Grounds
Poor power or ground connections can cause widely varying symptoms.

Test all control module power circuits. Many vehicles have multiple circuits supplying power to the control module. Inspect connections at the control module connectors, fuses, and any intermediate connections between the power source and the control module or component. A test lamp or a DMM may indicate that voltage is present, but neither tests a circuits ability to carry sufficient current. Ensure that the circuit can carry the current necessary to operate the component. Refer to Power Distribution Schematics in Wiring Systems.
Test all control module ground and system ground circuits. The control module may have multiple ground circuits. Other components in the system may have separate grounds that may also need to be tested. Make sure the ground connections are clean and tight at the grounding point. Inspect the connections at the component and in splice packs, where applicable. Ensure that the circuit can carry the current necessary to operate the component.

Temperature Sensitivity
An intermittent condition may occur only when the component is cold, or only when the component is hot. The heat that affects the circuit can be engine generated or due to a poor connection in the circuit or a high electrical load.
Information from the customer may help to determine if the trouble follows a pattern that is temperature related. The Freeze Frame/Failure Records or Snapshot data may help with this type of intermittent condition, where applicable.
If the intermittent is related to heat, review the data for a relationship with the following:
High ambient temperatures
Underhood/engine generated heat
Circuit generated heat due to a poor connection, or high electrical load
Higher than normal load conditions (towing, etc.)
If the intermittent is related to cold, review the data for the following:
Low ambient temperatures--In extremely low temperatures, ice may form in a connection or component. Inspect for water intrusion.
The condition only occurs on a cold start.
The condition goes away when the vehicle warms up.

Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) and Electrical Noise
Some electrical components and circuits are sensitive to electromagnetic interference (EMI) or other types of electrical noise. Inspect for the following conditions:

A misrouted harness that is too close to high voltage and high current devices such as secondary ignition components, motors, generator, etc. These components may induce electrical noise on a circuit that could interfere with normal circuit operation.
Electrical system interference caused by a malfunctioning relay, control module driven solenoid, or switch. They can cause a sharp electrical surge. Normally, the problem will occur when the malfunctioning component is operating.
Incorrect installation of non-factory, aftermarket, add-on accessories such as lights, 2-way radios, amplifiers, electric motors, remote starters, alarm systems, cell phones, etc.
Test for an open diode across the A/C compressor clutch and for other open diodes. Some relays may contain a clamping diode or resistor.

Incorrect Control Module Programming
There are only a few situations where reprogramming a control module is appropriate:
A new control module is installed.
Revised software/calibration files have been released for this vehicle.
Important: DO NOT reprogram the control module with the SAME software/calibration files that are already present in the control module. This is not an effective repair for any type of driveability problem.


Verify that the control module contains the correct software/calibration. If incorrect programming is found, reprogram the control module with the most current software/calibration. Refer to Service Programming System (SPS) in Programming and Setup.

Duplicating Failure Conditions
If the previous tests were not successful, attempt to duplicate and/or capture the failure conditions.

Freeze Frame/Failure Records data, where applicable, contains the conditions that were present when the DTC set.

Review and record the Freeze Frame/Failure Records data.
Clear any DTCs with a scan tool.
Turn OFF the key and wait 15 seconds.
Operate the vehicle under the same conditions that were noted in Freeze Frame/Failure Records. The vehicle must also be operating within the Conditions For Running the DTC. Refer to Conditions for Running the DTC in the supporting text of the DTC being diagnosed.
Monitor DTC status for the DTC being tested. The scan tool will indicate Ran when the enabling conditions have been satisfied long enough for the DTC to run. The scan tool will also indicate whether the DTC passed or failed.
An alternate method is to drive the vehicle with a DMM connected to a suspected circuit. An abnormal reading on the DMM when the problem occurs may help you locate the problem.

Scan Tool Snapshot
The scan tool can be set up to take a snapshot of the parameters available via serial data. The Snapshot function records live data over a period of time. The recorded data can be played back and analyzed. The scan tool can also graph parameters singly or in combinations of parameters for comparison. The snapshot can be triggered manually at the time the symptom is noticed or set up in advance to trigger when a DTC sets.

An abnormal value captured in the recorded data may point to a system or component that needs to be investigated further.

Refer to the scan tool user instructions for more information on the Snapshot function.
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:37 AM   #10
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Mine does the same thing, I don't know why though, guessing it'* the starter. I learned that if you hold the key in the start position, sometimes for quite a while, it will eventually fire up.
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