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Bonneville GXP/ Northstar Powered Cars Discuss your Bonneville GXP and/or any other Northstar powered Olds or Cadillac... Including the 3.5L Twin Cam V6 (Short Star ) 4.0L and 4.6L Northstar V8's. Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 06-04-2007, 09:25 PM   #1
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This was a very interesting read

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/*...ad.php?t=49576

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Why isn't this defect a recall? Why aren't you telling the owners of some of your nicest cars about this problem?
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:39 AM   #2
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I’ll tell you why it hasn’t generated a recall from GM, contrary to the original posters/additional posters in that threads’ scientific research, obviously it hasn’t happened to a large enough volume of vehicles to necessitate the cost of an entire product wide recall. This from experience working in a Chevy service department and seeing this first hand. Every vehicle brand, make, manufacturer has problems with certain vehicles, engines, platforms, etc. Over how many years has Cadillac, now Pontiac and Buick, manufactured and installed how many Northstars in their vehicles? Let’* not forget the Shortstar used by Oldsmobile over numerous years or the babystar, Aurora V8? So a random glut of 2000 – 2002 model year cars experiencing this problem isn’t enough to drive a TSB and issuing a recall.

I have yet to find an engine made by any manufacturer that’* perfect. Northstar’* have their own set of problems, as do LSx/Vortec motors, L67’*/L36’*, etc, etc. Making a purchase of a vehicle, as one poster eluded to his Uncle or whoever that worked in a Caddy dealer’* service department “would’ve shot him” because he bought a Caddy, all because of a stupid crank sensor, or the 1 in a million chance that your head bolts will back out, or the block will split, is utterly and stupidly, ludicrous!

It just means you know what to look for and what a common repair would be when potentially making your purchase. All vehicles at some point, are going to need to be repaired, so it’* really irrelevant when it’* stupid, small trivial sh*t like a potentially faulty crank sensor.

I’d rather have a faulty crank sensor than the Wife’* previous ’99 Dodge Intrepid whose V6 had nothing but nagging electrical problems and transmission problems (I went through 3 input speed sensors and 2 output speed sensors in the 2 years we owned it) and whose A/C compressor clutch caught on fire when the solenoid engaged, shorting it out one morning on her way to work. Not to mention the trans pan surface was warped, so the pan no matter how hard I tried (even silconing it), still leaked, which then dripped onto the hot exhaust downpipes that ran right down next to the trans. Nope, no accident there waiting to happen! Or what about my ’96 Monte Carlo with the dreaded “X” motor that GM dumped due to high warranty costs, and frequent warranty costs. If the wind blew northeast one day vs. east, it’* PCM would trigger a Christmas tree of codes. I got to work on these all the time!

Point is, in the grand scheme of things, a faulty crank sensor isn’t that big of a deal!
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:46 AM   #3
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This may not affect the GXP. I don't think any GXPs were built in early 2003.

If it doesn't cause a fire, some sort of explosion, it'* more difficult to become a recall. Similar to the fuel strainer on a 92. It was too small and when fuel got low, it was extremely common to lose fuel during right hand turns and was a real problem when trying to merge onto the interstate. Never a recall. You'd still have manual steering and short term braking.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:36 PM   #4
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There is something going on at GM dealers regarding warranty work. I have owned nothing but new GM cars for the last 15 years and the dealers have ducked and dodged warranty work on every one. Recently, my Tahoe had the steering shaft problem just like the Bonnes. My Chevy dealer said my tires were cupped badly causing the steering wheel shutter and clunk. They said I needed new tires and a front end alignment. PA--LEEEEASE. I put an additional 30k on those tires, bought some $200 each Michelins, and took it back and said "now fix the steering shaft". And they finally did - one year later. Even my Pontiac service writer said it was a common problem with those trucks and that his personal Escalade needed it done. So why wouldn't the Chevy dealer that sold a ton of Suburbans and Tahoes acknowledge the steering shaft issue???? There is a TSB of course. Because they wanted to sell a front end alignment and not do warranty work IMO.
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:01 PM   #5
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Because most dealerships in a certain city/region are in competition with one another to keep warranty expenses down. The carrot before them is that it affects a bonus. Lower warranty costs = higher bonuses paid. You figure out the rest.

Now this is not to say that legitimate warranty services wouldn't be provided by our department, but if you came in on May 31st with a potentially blown engine, and we've already replaced 4 engines this month on other vehicles, as well as a few other high dollar parts such as T56'*, some rear ends, etc, I won't lie and say we didn't push customers away!

Trust me, when $$$ are on the line, service departments get very stringent. Can GM do something about it, only if it'* blatantly common. But one thing GM has to keep in mind is that the dealerships are all privately owned with a franchise agreement and you want to keep each party happy. Penalizing a dealership on some service issue can come back to bite you in the arse if you're trying to push inventories on said dealer... It'* a circular affect if you follow me. Each party needs one another, so neither wants to upset the applecart.
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:15 PM   #6
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CMNTMXR57, you pretty much have it right. For any of us that have had to do occasional battle with the service department, it can be frustrating and almost always ends up with the consumer feeling as if he/she'* been lied to (since, in many cases, that'* what has happened).

It always helps (me, at least) to understand the business case behind the decisions being made. Sometimes it allows one to negotiate better.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Wikoff
This may not affect the GXP. I don't think any GXPs were built in early 2003.

.
I havent seen the faulty crank sensor issue on newer models. Money is the roots of all the problems stated, and the government wont react to problems with cars untill the problem kills people. And not one or two.

The problem with GM Dealers these days stems from newer GM Corporate policy.
They are nervous as sheep about warranty work because if they cant simulate the problem you have or bring up an error code, GM has left them on their own and making them eat the bill or forcing You to pay for something not fixed.he Company has shot itself in the foot to may times for me to ever buy GM again. I hope to keep my GXP around for along time but a used Lexus or BMW is my new starting point for my next daily driver.
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:03 PM   #8
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Not entirely true. All warranty is done on the dealers bill. Even the legit costs of repair from a DTC popping up or a faulty EGR system. GM reimburses them later. If anything is “questionable”, that is when sometimes the dealer gets stuck footing the bill because GM won’t reimburse.
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Old 06-08-2007, 11:11 PM   #9
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All true at the Cadillac Dealership I go to. They have a preprinted sign at the Service desk thats states" Due to GM policy any condition that We cannot replicate or diagnose, labor will be charged to the owner." i.e. if it'* an intermittent problem and they cant figure it out~You pay.
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Old 06-09-2007, 10:11 AM   #10
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I think there are two issues that companies must come to terms with if they want to keep their customers. Build reliable machines or have a good warranty system. You MUST have one or the other no matter what your building... boats, lawnmowers, cars, whatever. Both would be the best. Unfortunately GM has neither. Their machines are somewhat poor in the reliability area (subjective), but their warranty system causes their dealers to be a$$holes about stepping up to the plate to keep customers happy.
Shame, shame. Ford and Chrysler were no better, although I haven't been involved with them anytime recently. I think it'* the major reason American car companies are dying. It'* not styling or price.
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