Remote starter, runs for 2 secs then dies. VATS problem? - Page 2 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 12-01-2006, 10:42 PM   #11
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You never mention, so I must assume the car runs when you use the key, thus VATS ain't an issue (based again on my assumption since you only mention remote starting)

How does your starter determine the car is running? My remote start has an induction wire wrqpped around the number one plug wire. It uses this ignal to determine the dcar started. Maybe whatever system your starter uses is disconnected?
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Old 12-01-2006, 11:11 PM   #12
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Typically a VATS bypass for a remote start uses a standard automotive relay. As one uses the key to start the vehicle, the VATS module sees the resistance from the key because the original wires are connected to the normally closed contacts of the relay. When the remote starter is used, the relay closes to the normally open contact where the added resistor matching the key value is installed. So there is the potential for the car to work normally with the key but not with the remote starter.

BUT... if there was a problem with the bypass, the car should not even start. So you bring up a great point, MOS. A good way to tell if the tach input is not functioning is to listen to the starter moter. Since the remote starter is looking for a pre-programmed idle speed (RPM), it will crank the motor until it "sees" that idle speed. If the tach input were disconnected, the remote starter sees 0 RPMs. This means that the engine will sound like it'* over cranking longer than it would normally take to start the motor. Typically the crank time for a remote starter is about 5 seconds or until the pre-programmed idle speed is reached. If it does not sense the correct RPM it will shut down, rest for a second or two, and then attempt another start (again over cranking).

This scenario sounds closer to what was described.
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Old 12-02-2006, 03:36 AM   #13
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I don't think it is the tach wire, if it was the R/* would continue cranking the starter even after the vehicle was runing. Remember that the Tach wire is just an input to tell the R/* to stop feeding the starter wire with power, because it senses that the vehicle is running from the tach source.
For anyone who is interested: The Tach wire for most GM'* (excluding older GM'* with a Coil & Cap) is either a White or Purple with White stripe found at the coil pack wire harness.

If you want a sure way to test if it is a Bypass problem perform this test.

1) Insert the ignition key and leave it in the OFF position

2) Remote Start the car

Does the vehicle stay running ? If so it'* the Bypass causing your problem.

Dutch
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Old 12-03-2006, 11:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zirconx

I think you're mistaken there. I cut the vats wire while the car was running, connected the two wires together, bypassing the feed up to the ignition switch, and let the car run for a while. Has always worked since. Found the instructions on this site I believe.

-Ryan
That should not have worked. VATS, once it saw that there was no resistance in that pathway anymore, should have gone into "Oh **** I am being jacked" mode. To properly bypass VATS means having to solder in the resistance value it initially learned.

Bill, there is *some* truth to the "learning" part...a new VATS module has no value stored in it. Once power is applied and a key is inserted, it "learns" that value in the key. But it is a one-time deal, as it is stored as a permanent value from that moment forward.
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Old 12-03-2006, 12:23 PM   #15
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Let me reiterate for the other Bill

VATS DOES NOT LEARN. Period.

If you don't have the correct resistance value.. and you start the car via the remote starter it is indeed using the initial fuel pump prime and running out of fuel.

Follow the Randman advice about adding the resistor, once this is done properly, it will work properly.
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Old 12-03-2006, 12:52 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBoost37
Let me reiterate for the other Bill

VATS DOES NOT LEARN. Period.

If you don't have the correct resistance value.. and you start the car via the remote starter it is indeed using the initial fuel pump prime and running out of fuel.

Follow the Randman advice about adding the resistor, once this is done properly, it will work properly.
But....it does

Allow me to quote from the good book...ahem....

Quote:
Replacing the PASS-Key II Module If the Pass-key II module is bad, it should be replaced with a new PASS-Key II module. It is not necessary to match the replacement PASS-KEY II module to the ignition key. The replacement module "learns" the ignition key code the first time it is turned on...etc, etc.
FSM 1993 Book 1, 9d-3.



Don't say I'm wrong...I'm just following what the Good Books say
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Old 12-03-2006, 01:42 PM   #17
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So... I wonder if twisting the wires under the dash produced a "close enough" resistance that the PCM would accept. That would e4xplain how it work... for a while.
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Old 12-03-2006, 01:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damemorder
So... I wonder if twisting the wires under the dash produced a "close enough" resistance that the PCM would accept. That would e4xplain how it work... for a while.
highly unlikely that any resistance created by wire twisting could be anything within tolerance of the VATS system
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Old 12-03-2006, 03:55 PM   #19
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I with I could find the original instructions I used, but as I said, I just shorted the two vats wires together, and it has always worked since. I've several non-pellet keys that work just fine, and the remote starter has always started fine. Like I said, this had to be done while the car was already running, and then had to be left running with the new resistance value (0) in place for a few minutes.

Anyway, I did remote start the car while I was in it this morning. I think the problem is related to a charging system problem I've been having. Sometimes I'm not getting full voltage out of the system, usually after first starting it. It runs as low as 10v sometimes. The gauge flickers up sometimes, like its a loose connection somewhere. But I've wiggled every charging and ground wire I can find. I've swaped alternators, and both of them bench tested good.

So anyway, when I remote started it this morning, it was reading around 10v immediately after starting. My remote starter is not hooked up to the tach, it senses running by the alternator voltage. So when its only putting out 10v, the remote starter thinks the car hasn't started, and shuts everything down before attempting again. I'm lucky it doesn't just continue cranking.

I would have really liked to hook it up to the tach, but the way I saw it I would have had to take the dash apart all the way to the instrument cluster.

So if you have any ideas on my voltage problem, I'm listening.

Thanks,
-Ryan
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Old 12-03-2006, 04:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zirconx

I would have really liked to hook it up to the tach, but the way I saw it I would have had to take the dash apart all the way to the instrument cluster.

So if you have any ideas on my voltage problem, I'm listening.

Thanks,
-Ryan
You can tach it up w/o going into the dash...just take it at the ICM (white wire)
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