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Old 09-16-2007, 03:46 PM   #1
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Default Totally Stock - Way Too Much Knock - UPDATE page 3

The car is completely stock. Based on what'* written below, it'* good that I have been babying the car for the past couple months. Though I've gone WOT handfuls of times and now I'm nervous.

My first run was before I changed the plugs. I saw 3.5* KR giving it half throttle at most, less than 50 mph. I stopped right there – changed plugs and wires yesterday – NGK TR55s.

Today:

60*F outside, coolant at 180*, trans at 185*, I'm seeing 6* KR or less. I saw 6* when I was closest to WOT on the highway above 70mph. Even with cruise control on at 68mph, I saw 1* KR pop up and trickle away, then 1* KR popped up again and disappeared. That seemed like false or "phantom" KR to me Besides the 6* KR run, every other time I see KR it is at least 2–4* and I'm just cruising around town at less than half throttle @ less than 50mph. Every time I give it any decent amount of gas I'm seeing KR.

Things I should do:
–Regap my plugs to .055 (they are at .060). It would be great if this was the sole cause of the KR but I highly doubt it.
–Check fuel pressure
–Various other small tune-up things - how much could a bad O2 sensor affect KR? - my PCV looks fine)

I also should check other parameters on the Aeroforce too, specifically WHEN I am on the throttle and getting KR, but after seeing what I have today I don't want to get on the throttle at all. I'm seeing way too much in stock form. I guess I'll hold off on an intake for now.

Any other suggestions? I haven't found any vacuum leaks. All hoses look good, EGR looks good on visual inspection.

I think I have the major things to do down, I'll see what I can find and update this thread as I go. Keep in mind, I have not done ANY tune-up things to the car since I got it besides the plugs and wires yesterday. The old plugs looked fine too. Even still, I'm surprised I'm seeing the KR that I am seeing. I guess it'* time for some routine maintenance and hope for the best.

_______

PS. My trans also gets up to 187* while cruising at 65mph for 30 minutes on the highway. Isn't there a tranny cooler on this damn car? My 94 never got above 150 on highway trips.
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Old 09-16-2007, 07:07 PM   #2
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No Tranny cooler Pete.... Just the unit inside the radiator.. 65-E'* in general do not over heat too bad.. But A few degrees cooler wouldn't hurt either

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Old 09-16-2007, 07:54 PM   #3
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I want cooler for sure, especially since I think my tranny has/had issues. I'd like to be at 170 at the hottest.

I regapped my plugs, but when I took them out the ground electrode was white-like in color and the center electrode was black. I changed these plugs yesterday. Probably normal as I just did some research. I'll take it for a ride for the heck of it and see if regapping did the trick (doubt it - but I'll amuse myself).
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Old 09-16-2007, 09:45 PM   #4
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It'* been stated that torque management can manifest itself as KR...is torque management only present "off the line" as if you were to stomp the gas from a stop...or is TM really "managing" your timing all throughout the rpm range?

Before I had the S2 I only paid so much attention to it and TM. I knew that the PCM learns your driving style and if you peeled off the line a lot TM would kick in. I'm just wondering if TM could be part of my issue – even though I rarely drive the car hard – if in fact TM really works all throughout the powerband.

When I got 6* of KR on the highway above 70mph I was surprised – and a bit pi$$ed – but am I correct that TM would not pull timing if I punched the gas at highway speeds? Or have I misunderstood TM?
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Old 09-17-2007, 12:10 AM   #5
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Looked at misfires on the Aeroforce tonight. Started the car up, selected misfires on the gauge, and right away I saw the number 2 after CYL #4. It went away seconds later. Then the number 2 showed up after CYL #6. That can be a problem.....
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Old 09-17-2007, 07:18 AM   #6
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The KR could be false KR. I know when Pat started running his aeroforces he was seeing erratic KR readings with his car totally stock.
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Old 09-17-2007, 08:40 AM   #7
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Interesting that three guys in the same area running the same fuel would all see what we would like to think of as false knock. Something is causing that reading, we may call it false....but is it?
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Old 09-17-2007, 08:45 AM   #8
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Hey...aren't you guys starting to get the winter-blend fuel again? That *might* be the source of it.
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Old 09-17-2007, 09:39 AM   #9
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If a cylinder misfires, that unburnt fuel is sent downstream to the O2 sensor. It sees a rich spike, and leans out the other 5 slightly to compensate. This can result in knock.

A tired O2 will typically run you RICH. Not lean.

Disconnect your WSS'* and see if those numbers change.
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Old 09-17-2007, 10:09 AM   #10
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No need to disconnect your WSS for low speed and in vacuum knock readings. It should not be TM if you aren't putting down any power.

Why don't you plan on stopping up this weekend and we can get some scans of your car and the knock to aid in looking for any obvious issues. You also mention points where this might be torque converter lockup because of the low rpm the load is high and can cause knock.
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