I'll take it point by point to make it clearest

Agreed, it probably does need spark plugs and wires, I'm going to look at them in the morning becaue it was already dark when this all occured tonight.

When launching from a stop it is real hesitant as it increases speed. This is heard in the motor, sounds like it'* missing. There is a shaking during this, but not as violent as the worst one I had tonight.

The dealer put a load on the battery before I purchased the car and the battery tested fine. I couldn't hear if the car turned over, the screetching noice was too loud for me to tell. I just know the guy at Autozone said he saw the motor jump when that happened...he was looking directly at the motor and I was in the car.

It was dark when he looked for antifreeze, but he looked under the the white puss and condensation on the underside of the cap and along the walls/sides beneath the cap. He checked my dipstick also but it wasn't made too clear if he saw anything there. As for how long it took the puss to build up I'm not sure, but like I said, the dealership changed the oil the day before i bought the car. I had addressed the condensation on the cap when I was just looking at the car so I'm going to assume that the cap was cleaned during the oil change in order to make it more appealing to me, but I'm not sure of that at all.

The dealer warranty is 60 days from purchase and covers main parts of the engine and tranny. There is an extended warranty I can purchase still that is decently comprhensive for another grand, and that will last 3 years/36,000 miles.

Is it in my best interest to try to get my money back for the car or to have them fix the problem. I really love the car, it'* loaded with everything I wanted... except it came with the added headache of an engine problem. I'm pretty picky with what I want and it took me a whie to find something like this so I'm not sure I'd be able to find something else, or at least have the time to, the semester starts on Monday for me.

~Dave

I would doubt that you will be able to get them to replace the engine. Unless it is making a terrible racket, the only way to find out about bearing wear is to tear the engine down. The "chocolate milk" under your filler cap should be enough evidence for them to replace the intake gasket. Will they do the lower also if they believe only the upper gasket to be bad, probably not. Whatever guarantee you can get from them would be a plus.

How was the car sold? Any type of warranty, other than what the state requires, or was it sold "as is"? You'd have to check you local laws on what may apply with a vehicle that was sold to you when they were likely aware of the problem, or should have been.

Just the warranty the stat requires. I can still purchase the extended warranty. I'll look into any state laws on neglect when selling a car. The car was not sold "as is." I paid cash for the vehicle.

Also from New York. Remember the Lemon Law. Verify with your own mechanic the antifreeze in the oil. (usually about 30 buck for a mechanic to look at it) NOT autozone. You need to be sure of the problem.

In NY they have to fix it. You have had the car only a few days you can go to the dealer and just say, Man I want my money back. He does not have to give it to you. He may though it might be worth a shot.

A reasonable dealer will fix the misfire condition at no charge to you. Unless the engine is dead there is no sure fire 100% guarantee the engine will die due to an intake gasket leak. The chances are high but in a court of law you can't prove that it will happen.

I missed your age if you need to bring your dad. (for support). Bring it to the dealer, tell them the problem (DO NOT FIX ANY OF THIS YOURSELF). Tell dealer to fix it and to restore your trust in him you want him to split the cost of an extended warranty. And make sure the warranty covers everything. Try to be very polite and considerate (good cop)
If the dealer refuses to fix the problem or starts to give you crap......Then pull out an envelope with a stamp that is addressed to the NY state Motor vehicle dept lemon law division. (bad cop) *get the address online*

I once had a problem with an olds. when you shut the car off the fan inside would run forever. The problem was a sensor on the engine block and the dealer knew it would take 4 hours to change as the distributor had to be taken out. He tried to pawn it off as normal. I stood in front of him with the letter and he fixed the car that day. Sometimes you have to fight.

Make sure you know what you want. (fixed car or replaced car) Look at the factors involved. Right now If my gaskets were to go I would fix them and not worry but you don't know how long the gaskets have been bad and they probably didn't just go bad. so that car may have been running the last 10k swapping fluids.

Now all of this is crazy until you can verify there is oil in the antifreeze with a competent mechanic. The guy at autozone might be talking out his @#$%.

If there is really a leak and you are swapping fluids then my opinion is to try and get your money back.

Please also remember all manufacturers have their issues. Don't let one car and this dealer turn you off a particular product. The people on this board, and myself could go on and on about known or common problems on alot of other cars.

I can not stress enough to pay the money and verify the problem with a mechanic before you go back to the dealer. I know it'* saturday but bring it to someone tomorrow. Even goodyear or firestone would be better than autozone.

NY lemon law covers:

WHAT PARTS ARE COVERED?

Covered parts must include at least:

Engine --All lubricated parts, water pump, fuel pump, manifolds, engine block, cylinder head, rotary engine housings and flywheel.

Transmission -- The transmission case, internal parts, and the torque converter.

Drive Axle -- Front and rear axle housings and internal parts, axle shafts, propeller shafts and universal joints.

Brakes -- Master cylinder, vacuum assist booster, wheel cylinders, hydraulic lines and fittings and disc brake calipers.

Steering -- The steering gear housing and all internal parts, power steering pump, valve body, piston and rack.

Radiator, Alternator, Generator, Starter, Ignition System (excluding battery).

The law permits a dealer to add language to the lemon law warranty to exclude coverage for the following:

(a) For a failure of a covered part caused by a lack of customary maintenance.

(b) For a failure of a covered part caused by collision, abuse, negligence, theft, vandalism, fire or other casualty and damage from the environment (windstorm, lightning, road hazards, etc.).

(c) If the odometer has been stopped or altered such that the car'* actual mileage cannot be readily determined, or if any covered part has been altered such that a covered part was thereby caused to fail.

(d) For maintenance services for the parts used in connection with such services such as seals, gaskets, oil and grease unless required in connection with the repair of a covered part.

(e) For a motor tune-up.

(f) For a failure resulting from racing or other competition.

(g) For a failure caused by towing a trailer or another vehicle unless the used car is equipped for this as recommended by the manufacturer.

(h) If the used car is used to carry passengers for hire.

(i) If the used car is rented to someone else.

(j) For repair of valves and/or rings to correct low compression and/or oil consumption which are considered normal wear.

(k) To the extent otherwise permitted by law, for property damage arising or allegedly arising out of the failure of a covered part.

(l) To the extent otherwise permitted by law, for loss of the use of the used car, loss of time, inconvenience, commercial loss or consequential damages.



Due to the language in the law, I don't think I'd be able to get them to replace the whole motor. I'll see where I can take it tomorrow or Monday before I go to the dealership. I'd never take the car to Firestone, lol.... maybe Goodyear.... maybe... but I'd trust the Pontiac dealership more, it might be worth waiting till their open...

Like I said (typed) earlier your chances of an engine replacement are slim. Also you don't need firestone or goodyear to fix it you just want the diagnostic receipt that states Oil in antifreeze so the dealer can't say he will just flush the coolant.

You don't have to worry about abuse or rental or accident as you've had the car 5 days or so.

Like i said earlier also, ask for your money back, if he says no, then ask for the extended warranty after he fixes the problem. (watch the fine print in the warranty as most have deductibles and some don't cover everything)

I wish you luck. It'* 1am I'm going to bed. Let us know.

Well I'll get the car checked out tomorrow if it is 30 bucks. Any idea of that metal intake thats on the newer engines will fit on my 2000 if I request that to be put on for the fix?

The short answer would be "no" on the Series III upper intake, but I'm not saying it can't be done. Did you buy the car from a GM dealership? They (GM) generally give a 30 or 60 day, X,000 miles guarantee which I believe would cover your particular problems.

I bought the extended warranty when i got my car. The shop charged my warranty company for a remanufactured motor and i got a used motor put in. There was a little choice, but not much. As far as proof that you need a different engine, once antifreeze gets mixed with the oil, the internally lubricated parts of the motor are not getting properly lubricated. Hence not getting properly lubricated, everytime the motor is ran with antifreeze in the oil, engine damage is occurring. Especially if you hear any type of knocking, then your engine is about done. It took less than 24 hours from the time my motor started missing and running rough, til the engine gave up.

Now i'm not saying that this is what'* going to happen with your car, but this is what happend to mine. Your missing could simply be something simple from a plug or wire, but if you really have antifreeze in the oil, you should not start or drive the car at all, unless you can afford either the extended warranty or a used engine.

I've read through this discussion but I may have missed whether there was a milky appearance to the actual oil on the dipstick. That would be a sure sign there'* antifreeze in the oil. The one way to tell would be to drain out the oil and see if there is water (coolant) in the old oil. That should be first on the seller'* repair list.

The gook under the oil cap can come after years of running the car especially in a cold climate where condensate makes it to the cold cap on top of the engine.

If the original UIM was replaced, correctly, in 03 could this be LIM gasket if there is coolant in the oil?

If there is any coolant in the oil, the bearings have been suffering chemical damage. Someone posted that their car continued to fail despite the UIM replacement and changing the oil because of the bearing damage.

I would expect the warranty required by State of New York or the sale of car NOT AS IS to cover replacement of parts. But a thorough check of what'* happening by an Honest mechanic and dealer is what'* needed. I can't judge the persons with whom you have to deal. The

The other problems would be seizing idler pulley, water pump, alternator, power steering pump causing the screech. Bad plugs, wires, ignition coil, electronic spark control.

If I were there, I'd look at the actual oil on the dipstick to see if it'* milky rather than clear, tan, or black. I'd look inside the valve cover through the hole for the oil filler cap (twist on the short tube and it unscrews ) so you can get a good look inside for milky gook-not just black sludge from old oil deposits.

Good luck.