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Old 10-05-2003, 01:24 AM   #1
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Default PCM Torque Management - Speedguy???

Do the 2000+ Bonneville SSEi have torque management?

How does it work?

What is the effect on performance?

Is there anyway to disable it?

Would it show up on an autotap as KR with a 0 knock sensor count?
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Old 10-05-2003, 12:56 PM   #2
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If you're refering to the Traction control system as Torque management, well yes it has one. It also has a stability control management system.
The traction control system uses the wheel speed sensors to detect differential wheel speeds. All the wheel speeds are input into the Computer and then the computer tells the anti-lock braking system which brake to apply to control.
There are algorithms that are used to also control the vehicle timing and will retard the timing if excessive wheelspin has been sensed for a predetermined length of time. This is true for our Bonne'* even with the Traction control turned off.
The Stability control system is a little more complex and uses lateral g-force transducers, yaw rate sensor, digital steering wheel position sensor together with the wheel speed sensors to work automatically with the anti-lock brakes (front wheels only).
Yes it can all be de-activated by pulling two main fuses BUT this is strongly not recommended because it also deactivates your anti-lock braking system. I do not believe that there would be any disadvantage by leaving it active.
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Old 10-05-2003, 02:40 PM   #3
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I am aware of the TCS and Stabilitrak systems. My understanding is there is also a torque management system which is used to protect the powertrain components from excessive engine torque - even in the absence of wheel spin or loss of stability.

I know the 04 GTP has this and it will actually reduce boost and timing at shift points to limit engine torque to approx 300 ft/lbs.

I also autotap my traction control delivered torque, which is usually between 40 percent and 80 percent.

Does this mean the system is reducing engine torque by 20% ot 60%?
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Old 10-05-2003, 04:16 PM   #4
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If you're using an AutoTap then you're getting real data so if it'* telling you that it'* reducing torque then that'* probably what it'* doing. Wow. the marvels of modern computer management systems protecting the Generals *** from warranty claims. :(
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Old 10-05-2003, 10:30 PM   #5
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What he said. lol

Actually I was asked many moons ago for a solution and I have now found a computer re-programmer but we are waiting on a few other projects before we finish following through with the option. If you want it yesterday and you are ready to pay for the option I may be able to get a one of done. Our programmer is the only one able to OBD2 caddy and many other options that other programmers cannot do to date.

Ty
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Old 10-06-2003, 05:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyguy
What he said. lol

Actually I was asked many moons ago for a solution and I have now found a computer re-programmer but we are waiting on a few other projects before we finish following through with the option. If you want it yesterday and you are ready to pay for the option I may be able to get a one of done. Our programmer is the only one able to OBD2 caddy and many other options that other programmers cannot do to date.

Ty
Awesome!!! I probably wait for it to go into production.

So just to be clear, the torque management will show up as KR and the tcs delivered torque shows the actual percentage of potential engine torque being delivered?
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Old 10-06-2003, 07:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
I know the 04 GTP has this and it will actually reduce boost and timing at shift points to limit engine torque to approx 300 ft/lbs.

I also autotap my traction control delivered torque, which is usually between 40 percent and 80 percent.

Does this mean the system is reducing engine torque by 20% ot 60%?
Now that'* amazing if the engine torque is being reduced by that amount.
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Old 10-06-2003, 08:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
I know the 04 GTP has this and it will actually reduce boost and timing at shift points to limit engine torque to approx 300 ft/lbs.
I don't think it reduces torque to ~300ft/lbs. or it would be reducing power when the car is stock, because as many many many dynos have proven, these cars have over 300ft/lbs. stock, usually more like 330ft/lbs. I am pretty sure it reduces it at more like 350ft/lbs.

Quote:
So just to be clear, the torque management will show up as KR and the tcs delivered torque shows the actual percentage of potential engine torque being delivered?
I am not 100% sure on this, because I haven't done the kind of testing I want to do, but from what I have observed, when you get KR, and your knock sensor count is 0, it is the torque management.

But, you can't really blame GM for putting it in the computers, they know what the engines are capable of, and they know what the trannies are capable of, and knowing those 2 things, they know they really shouldn't put that tranny on that engine, but they do and just program some power reducing crap into the computer to try to keep their warranty costs down.
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Old 10-06-2003, 11:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbtk2
Quote:
I know the 04 GTP has this and it will actually reduce boost and timing at shift points to limit engine torque to approx 300 ft/lbs.
I don't think it reduces torque to ~300ft/lbs. or it would be reducing power when the car is stock, because as many many many dynos have proven, these cars have over 300ft/lbs. stock, usually more like 330ft/lbs. I am pretty sure it reduces it at more like 350ft/lbs.
I believe on the 04 it does in fact reduce power when the car is stock. This is how they increased peak horsepower by 20HP at the same RPM without increasing peak torque. The new blower produces a cooler denser charge throughout the powerbend. Hence, their should be more torque from idle to redline.
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Old 10-07-2003, 11:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
I believe on the 04 it does in fact reduce power when the car is stock. This is how they increased peak horsepower by 20HP at the same RPM without increasing peak torque. The new blower produces a cooler denser charge throughout the powerbend. Hence, their should be more torque from idle to redline.
The '04'* do have more torque than the Series II'*, GM just won't say they do, for 1 reason, and it is the same reason they said the Series II'* only had 280, because the tranny is only rated for 280lb.ft., and in magical GM world, if you only rate it at that much power then it is like only having that much power ( ). I don't know what they are thinking, but they will not rate it for more than 280lb.ft. because the tranny is only rated for that, and they are too cheap & lazy to put a better tranny in them. I do know the '04'* do have a larger problem with the torque management though, but that is probably because they make almost 350lb.ft of torque STOCK.
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