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Old 08-19-2003, 02:14 PM   #1
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I just recently installed a set of 1.9 rockers on a 2003 monte ss. After installing them and running + driving for 45i minutes, there is a noticable tap from the new rockers. I purchased them new from 3800 performance. Does this sound normal to anybody or is there a problem with them?
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Old 08-24-2003, 09:54 PM   #2
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I found the problem, I spoke to kirt from I-WIN who makes and sells the rockers to 3800 performance and was told by him that the 1.9 ratio are no good for the non supercharged engines. Those are to use 1.8 and 1.85 rockers only. the 1.9 ratio are ONLY for the SUPERCHARGED engines. What I did was take them from the 03 Monte and put them on my 00 SSEi and the noise is gone! : It made such a nice difference on the SSEi and on the Monte they killed the bottom end too much besides the noisethey made. Kirt said the cam on the non supercharged motor has a different profile causing the noise and was going to have 3800 performance only list them for *.C. applications
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Old 08-24-2003, 10:17 PM   #3
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Glade you got that cleared up. It sounds like you did the rocker install yourself? Rockers are next on the list for the ssei, how much should I pay for install?
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Old 08-24-2003, 10:41 PM   #4
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This was my second set and to do them took me about 2.5 to 3.0 hours. This is with no problems,mistakes and looks like the motor was never touched. The front are easy, only 45 mins, the back valve cover was buried. Once it was off things went smooth. What I'm trying to say is look for someone with patience, most of this job was basic mechanics but could easily turn sour if it is rushed due to all the wiring and sensors that have to be carefully moved out of the way and re-installed just as carefully. After all is said and done I an pleased with the outcome I'm not sure of prices but whatever 3 hours labor is worth should be reasonable.
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Old 08-25-2003, 09:52 PM   #5
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Thanks for the tips!!
On the ssei did you notice an acceleration improvment? How about the top end? did the rpm go down at highway speed?
I'm considering the i-win rockers too for my ssei. what im after is quicker starts and more bottom end torque.
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Old 08-25-2003, 10:06 PM   #6
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There was a big difference before and after. My SSEi has too much bottom end to start with all it wants to do is light the tires and you could feel it flatten out on the top end. Now with the 1.9'* , the tires still spin too easily off the line but the power never runs out on the top. Even at 5800 rpm it is still pulling strong. The throttle response is still fantastic all around. Next I want the ASE computer upgrade to get more rpm up top. I also still have the stock exhaust and intake which I'm sure is holding me back. I would recommend them. Let me know what you do.
Joe
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Old 08-25-2003, 11:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
I found the problem, I spoke to kirt from I-WIN who makes and sells the rockers to 3800 performance and was told by him that the 1.9 ratio are no good for the non supercharged engines. Those are to use 1.8 and 1.85 rockers only. the 1.9 ratio are ONLY for the SUPERCHARGED engines.
Well, that is partly true. The 1.9 rockers will work fine on the N/A engines...the tapping isn't normal at all, it is just that the 1.9'* give the n/a engines too much lift so they loose a lot of torque and don't gain much horsepower because the heads aren't flowing well with that much lift, the 1.8/1.85 rockers don't drop the torque as much and are a much nicer choice, although IIRC there are the ZZP ER rockers or something that are supposed to be even better for the N/A engines.

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Glade you got that cleared up. It sounds like you did the rocker install yourself? Rockers are next on the list for the ssei, how much should I pay for install?
It is fairly simple to do, especially the front rockers because all you have to do is pull off the valve cover, you don't have to move anything. For the rear you have to move a bunch of things to be able to get to it, but it is still easy to do. I personally wouldn't pay anyone to do it, just get directions for it and follow them well and you should be able to do it fine. I don't know who would even install them...ZZP used to install them for $150 IIRC, but they don't do that anymore because they switched locations and don't have a garage anymore.

My father and I would do the rocker swap for you if you want, (free of charge of course, and hopefully it won't turn out like the pulley swap) but that means you would have to make the drive all the way to MI again, and I don't know that it is worth it because the install is simple (just time consuming) and no special tools are needed. If you can do the shift kit, then you can do the rockers, the rockers will just take longer because there is a lot of stuff to be done.

HOWEVER...Since I know you are probably going to be getting a DHP when the time comes it may be a good idea to upgrade your valvesprings to 85lb. springs ($109 for set of 12) (stock are ~60-70lb.) when you put in the rockers, and you will also need new retainers to be able to use the springs ($59 for set of 12). Because of the added lift of the rockers, it puts more tension on the stock valvesprings, and at higher RPM'* the engine is turning so fast the springs sometimes aren't strong enough to close the valves back up as quick as they should with the added lift and you will get valvefloat at high rpms which robs you of power. (And plenty of it) So, you can replace the springs with stronger springs so you don't get valvefloat, and then when you get the DHP you can have them set the shiftpoints at 6200-6400rpms instead of 6000 because the valvetrain will be strong enough to handle the revs that high (the springs are the weak point in the valvetrain) and you will take more advantage of the high-end power the rockers add, so the car will shift higher taking advantage of the high end power (5000+rpms) and then since it is shifting at a higher speed it will be at higher revs in the next gear when it shifts so it will take less time to get into the powerband in 2nd gear, and then it will do the same for 3rd gear too. The only downside to that is that it is a PITA to change the valvesprings and requires you to pressurize the cylinder with an air compressor to prevent the valves from falling in, so you will need the tool for that, and an air compressor to hook the tool up to. (it threads into the spark plug hole, then connects to the air compressor like an air hose would and it just runs a constant 90-100psi pressure into the cylinder.

I recommend this for anyone considering rockers and DHP as eventual mods.
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Old 08-26-2003, 01:48 PM   #8
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Alright, that was very helpful. I'm just cautious on doing my own rockers, never done anything like this before. A DHP is on my list, so the retainers and valve springs are a must, problem don't have the tools for that and again am cautious cause I've never done it before. I've got plenty of time to decide though, probably won't do rockers till springtime.
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Old 08-26-2003, 03:37 PM   #9
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Thanks again dbtk2, great info.
Curious though, if you were too change out the springs and retainers how much more would it be to pull the heads instead of pulling plugs and add compressor adapter. it would seem tough to get at the back set and plum it for the change over
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Old 08-26-2003, 10:31 PM   #10
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Curious though, if you were too change out the springs and retainers how much more would it be to pull the heads instead of pulling plugs and add compressor adapter. it would seem tough to get at the back set and plum it for the change over
When you pull the heads you have to get head gaskets and all that stuff, plus you have to get even more stuff out of the way to get them out, it is much easier to do it with the heads on the engine in the car. We changed the springs and retainers in the GTP at ZZP Mod Day a few months ago and it took us probably 3-4 hours to do so and we were taking brakes, and we were sharing the air compressor with someone (they were changing out struts or something), so we kept having to wait for them to finish with the air to move on the next cylinder. What you have to do is, when the car is in park sit inside while a few guys push the car forward, when the car is as far forward as it can be without rocking back hit the emergency brake to hold it there so the engine rocks forward. It gives you much better access to the rear of the engine and it is much easier to work on the rear springs & rockers.

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Alright, that was very helpful. I'm just cautious on doing my own rockers, never done anything like this before. A DHP is on my list, so the retainers and valve springs are a must, problem don't have the tools for that and again am cautious cause I've never done it before. I've got plenty of time to decide though, probably won't do rockers till springtime.
I don't know of anyone, except Zooomer, that has the tool for that, but I was told you could buy it from sears or something like that. My dad is planning on getting one in the near future so he can help others out with their swaps, but I don't know when that will be, or if he will definately be getting it. If he gets it I will let you know so you have the option of coming here again if you want. If you have access to an air compressor you can probably do this by yourself, but you will have to buy the tool for it (something like $25), it is easy to replace the springs and rockers it is just time consuming and there is a lot of stuff to do. If you don't feel comfortable changing them by yourself then I personally wouldn't do it if I were you, because it is an important part of the engine and you don't want to mess things up. When my dad originally had his 1.9 rockers put in his car Zooomer (owner of ZZP) installed them for him for I think $150. Once we saw Zooomer do it, we knew how to do it for ourselves and it is no big deal now, it just kind of scares you the first time. Like I said, when you get ready to do them you can come back to MI and we will set aside a whole day (12 hours or so) so we can make sure and take our time and do everything carefully and correctly, and my dad and I can do them for you. It will probably take more like 4 hours to do it (the springs, retainers, and rockers), but as you know it is always a good idea to set aside extra time in case something goes wrong.

Hope this helps you guys.

Shawn
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