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Old 03-24-2008, 07:11 PM   #1
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Default No TCC lockup

2000 SE 3800 V6 w/ 4t65e automatic transmission.

Car is fully warmed up, about 195 on the temp gauge. Cruising at 65mph, about 2,500 rpm.

Service Engine light is OFF.

Shifting from 3rd to "D" produces no change in engine rpm.

Is the solenoid stuck?

Where does one start as far as fixing it with absolutely NO paid service assistance?
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:14 PM   #2
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However, I do plan on paying for new parts as needed.

BTW I have the 2 volume factory service manual, plenty of tools (some that I've used for 30+ years) and a nice dry 2 car garage.
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Old 03-24-2008, 09:35 PM   #3
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Even if there is no light on, there might still be codes stored. That was true with my transmission, and it died on me last fall... Go to Auto Zone and have them scan your car. You might just be surprised...
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petraman
Even if there is no light on, there might still be codes stored. That was true with my transmission, and it died on me last fall... Go to Auto Zone and have them scan your car. You might just be surprised...
Then again, I might just not...
Scan revealed:
No Trouble codes.
History: #6 cylinder misfire.

#6 misfire was from too many short drives in the winter. A longer drive fixed it, but not the lockup.

BTW, there might be some threads here on how to cure that tick.
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: No TCC lockup

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00SEI
Is the solenoid stuck?

Where does one start as far as fixing it with absolutely NO paid service assistance?
First, you need a scanner. TCC signal is usually one of the parameters that shows in the data stream from the powertrain computer. DTC codes 741 and 742 will indicate that the TCC is stuck on or off. Per the manual, TCC can come on in 3rd or 4th gear, with two %TPS vs. VSS tables: 3rd, 12% TPS, 30MPH/ 25%,75 MPH. 4th 12% @45mph, 25% @64mph.

There'* a bunch of electrical switches involved in the TCC circuits..so first step is to look for the codes to see if the PCM knows something is amiss in the TCC.

Beyond the electrical signals, the actual TCC operation is dirt simple and can only fail mechanically in a few places: The TCC solenoid in the case breaks, the shaft seals feeding fluid under pressure from the solenoid fails, the clutch itself fails inside the torque converter...or the converter has ballooned.

But again, looking at the PCM'* codes and running data is step one. (Edit, since you just responded with no stored codes, can you see the PCM trying to apply TCC?)
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:33 PM   #6
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I have an old Autoxray scanner that will read GM codes to 2000 but I don't have the $50 OBDII cable, only the OBD1 cable. I been wanting to buy the ScanGauge II.
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Old 03-24-2008, 11:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00SEI
I have an old Autoxray scanner that will read GM codes to 2000 but I don't have the $50 OBDII cable, only the OBD1 cable. I been wanting to buy the ScanGauge II.
I understand. Unfortunately, there'* no easy way to diagnose a TCC lockup problem without knowing if the PCM is actually commanding the TCC on or not. You can check the wiring in the circuits, including the brake switch and transmission connector (Pins T and U on the connector)

Visually, you can drop the dust cover on the transaxle and look at the torque converter for an obvious distortion from being ballooned out. That'* about it. The valve itself is on the valve body.

Not setting the code seems to indicate that the PCM isn't seeing any slipping when TCC is applied..a bit strange if you are feeling it like there'* no drop in RPM.
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Old 03-25-2008, 01:36 AM   #8
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To add what was posted above, GM has issued a few TSBs on the transmissions, with virtually all of them referenced to a code. This is a TSB regarding when to replace the torque converter. It will give you an idea of some of the things to check for a failed torque converter.


Quote:
A/T - Torque Converter Replacement

Bulletin No.: 01-07-30-010B

Date: October 11, 2005

INFORMATION
Subject:
Automatic Transmission/Transaxle Torque Converter Replacement

Models:
All 2006 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Trucks
2003-2006 HUMMER H2
2006 HUMMER H3
2006 and Prior Saturn Cars and Light Duty Trucks (Except VTi Equipped Vehicles (RPO M16 and M75)
2005-2006 Saab 9-7X

with ALL Automatic Transmissions and Transaxles

Supercede:

This bulletin is being revised to add additional model years and include the HUMMER H3, Saturn and Saab models. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 01-07-30-ObA (Section 07 - Transmission/Transaxle).

The purpose of this bulletin is to help technicians determine when a torque converter should be replaced. Below is a list of general guidelines to follow.

The converter should NOT be replaced if the following apply:
^ DTC P0742 - TCC stuck on is set. This code is almost always the result of a controls condition (i.e. stuck TCC solenoid/valve). Experience has shown that this code rarely indicates a mechanical concern within the torque converter.

^ The fluid has an odor or is discolored but no evidence of metal contamination.

^ Fine metal particles (traces of metal flakes/gray color to fluid) are found in the converter. This is not harmful to the torque converter.

^ The vehicle has been exposed to high mileage.

^ A small amount of wear appears on the hub where the oil pump drive gear mates to the converter (RWD only). A certain amount of such wear is normal for both the hub and oil pump gear. Neither the converter nor the front pump assembly should be replaced.

The torque converter should be replaced under any of the following conditions:
^ The vehicle has TCC shudder and/or no TCC apply. First complete all electrical and hydraulic diagnosis and check for proper engine operation. The converter clutch may be damaged. Also, the converter bushing and/or internal 0-ring may be damaged.

^ Evidence of damage to the oil pump assembly, pump shaft, turbine shaft, drive sprocket support and bearing, or metal chips/debris in the converter.

^ Metal chips/debris are found in the converter or when flushing the cooler and the cooler lines.

^ External leaks in the hub weld area, lug weld or closure weld.

^ Converter pilot is broken, damaged, or fits poorly into the crankshaft.

^ The converter hub is scored or damaged.

^ The transmission oil is contaminated with engine coolant, engine oil or water.

If excessive end play is found after measuring the converter for proper end play (refer to Service Manual).
^ If metal chips/debris are found in the fluid filter, or on the magnet, and no internal parts in the unit are worn or damaged. This indicates that the material came from the converter.

^ The converter has an unbalanced condition which results in a vibration that cannot be corrected by following Converter Vibration Procedures.

^ Blue converter or dark circular ring between lugs. This condition will also require a complete cleaning of the cooler and a check for adequate flow through the cooler.

^ Converter bearing noise determined by noise from the bell housing area in Drive or Reverse at idle. The noise is gone in Neutral and Park.

If silicon from the viscous clutch is found in the lower pan (4T80-E ONLY).
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:44 AM   #9
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You need to monitor your trani temp.

PontiacDad had a bad torque converter and burned up his trani because the lock up was malfunctioning.
The fix was a new torque converter......and another rebuild.

Hope you fix it.
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Old 03-26-2008, 02:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000SilverBullet
You need to monitor your trani temp...Hope you fix it.
Did 2 three hour 65+mph drives. Transmission fluid is clean and clear with a hint of red on the trans. dipstick. No evidence of high temp.

Previous owner was an elderly woman. Car has only 68,000 miles.

No need for hope, it will get fixed.
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