How to evaluate a junkyard engine? (Spun rod bearing) - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


2000-2005 Discuss your 2000-2005 Bonneville SE, SLE, and SSEi Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-11-2006, 06:06 AM   #1
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Grande Cache, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bonnyitis is on a distinguished road
Default How to evaluate a junkyard engine? (Spun rod bearing)

Hello all, this post is continued from my intro, ‘Owning a Bonneville is a disease, called Bonnyitis'.
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...ic.php?t=56480

Got a Dexcool leak at the warped UIM to TB:


Researched the L-O-N-G story and came up with this:
Code:
Name                             Old#           New#              Difference                   Year Revised

Upper intake manifold   17113136    same?             Rochester to Delphi       2000?
Upper intake manifold   17113136    89017272       More heat resistant?     2004?
                                                                                (same dimensions)

Upper intake gasket     17113137    89017554(kit)   TB coolant passage      2003
                                                                                  gaskets red to black

Lower intake manifold   24502743    24508923         [3/4" to 5/8" EGR pipe,
Lower intake manifold   24502745    24508923         EGR pipe material changed]
Lower intake manifold   24505728    24508923                                              1999

Lower intake gasket     12537197    89017816         [better sealing ribs, aluminum frame,
Lower intake gasket     12480830    89017816         improved formulation, light green air
Lower intake gasket     89017399    89017816         passage sealing surfaces, black coolant
Lower intake gasket     89017400    89017816         sealing surfaces]           2004
I was compulsive to brush and vacuum debris at every step, and had plastic bags stuffed in all the intakes as I cleaned the gasket surfaces. Of course the upper heater core coolant bypass elbow snapped and left a piece in the LIM. So I poked at it with a small screwdriver and the piece popped out...INTO the LIM! Shook it around like mad but it would not come out of any opening. F*** it, it'* just for the heater core, I thought. (OK, stop laughing.) Note to self: when pulling that piece in the future, USE A TAP! Got it buttoned up, started great, lots of heat from the heater so flow'* got to be OK right? Took it for a test drive. Did I mention I changed the oil? No I didn't. I mean I DIDN'T CHANGE THE OIL. (OK, stop laughing.) Floored it going up the hill into town and after ONE MINUTE, started losing power and got ROD KNOCK! Temp read 200, never more. Oil pressure of course was pegged to max from the famous GM quality sensor, but later I replaced the sensor and it idled at 40 PSI (Haynes says should be 60 on 1999'* and later). Not bad.

Pulled the oil pan (don't forget about removing the oil level sensor, Dah!). Then pulled a rod cap and found a spun rod bearing. The babbit linings are completely gone.


The crank journal is pretty rough too.


Pulled another random rod cap and the babbit is all spotty.


My old UIM was brittle but didn't seem to leak INTO the engine, just an exterior leak as far as I can tell. Of course the overflow tank had to be topped off once in a while, but I don't know if any went in the engine. I suppose a bit of Dexcool may have gone in, since the LIM gasket was in bad shape. But when I drained the oil, no Dexcool drops could be detected at the bottom of the drain pan.

Made up a EGR pipe sleeve with stainless steel sheet metal and JB welded it.



1. What happened to spin my bearing? Loose bypass elbow piece, dirt in the oil, coolant in the oil that evaporated and I can't detect anymore that caused the oil to become acidic?

2. How do you evaluate a junkyard engine that'* been pulled? The guy says it'* got low miles, runs great, trrrrust me. How do you prove that? Do you like, pull the plugs, spin the crankshaft, do a compression test right in front of them? Is it even possible to do a compression test by hand? Do you even pull the oil pan and rod caps? Are there any numbers on the engine you can check with Carfax or another service? 90 day warranty my A$$, cuz I have to pay $150 shipping each way (300 miles) to the city (Edmonton) and spend 12 hours swapping it. (Never did an engine swap before)

3. Anyone know of a deal on an L36 in Alberta?

4. Is it a PITA to import an engine from USA to Canada? (MUCH better deals found in USA!)

5. Which direction does the coolant flow through that upper coolant bypass elbow?

6. Would blocking flow to the heater core screw up the cooling in the engine block?

7. Can I reuse my (almost new) LIM and UIM gaskets that were installed in the dead engine? (The LIM gasket is the aluminum version #89017816.)


Merci beaucoup,
Chris
bonnyitis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2006, 11:12 AM   #2
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default Re: How to evaluate a junkyard engine? (Spun rod bearing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonnyitis

1. What happened to spin my bearing? Loose bypass elbow piece, dirt in the oil, coolant in the oil that evaporated and I can't detect anymore that caused the oil to become acidic?

2. How do you evaluate a junkyard engine that'* been pulled? The guy says it'* got low miles, runs great, trrrrust me. How do you prove that? Do you like, pull the plugs, spin the crankshaft, do a compression test right in front of them? Is it even possible to do a compression test by hand? Do you even pull the oil pan and rod caps? Are there any numbers on the engine you can check with Carfax or another service? 90 day warranty my A$$, cuz I have to pay $150 shipping each way (300 miles) to the city (Edmonton) and spend 12 hours swapping it. (Never did an engine swap before)

3. Anyone know of a deal on an L36 in Alberta?

4. Is it a PITA to import an engine from USA to Canada? (MUCH better deals found in USA!)

5. Which direction does the coolant flow through that upper coolant bypass elbow?

6. Would blocking flow to the heater core screw up the cooling in the engine block?

7. Can I reuse my (almost new) LIM and UIM gaskets that were installed in the dead engine? (The LIM gasket is the aluminum version #89017816.)


Merci beaucoup,
Chris
Wow. Can you shrink you pics? They're huge, and your hosting is slow. Try photobucket.

While I'm not the L36 expert around these parts, I'll take a quick stab at your questions:

1. Your bearing spun from moisture in the oil most likely. You drank too much over time and it rusted out. You wouldn't be the first.

2. Turn it through by hand with no plugs. Compression checks won't tell you a thing about the bearings. Look for evidence of the upper failure. Check the oil and coolant. The UIM failures are relatively uncommon in cars newer than 2000, so the risk is a bit less. Pull the UIM and look as well.

3. Hook up with Moderator Matt. Click on the 'Moderators' link in any section of the Forum and PM him. He has industry connections that may be useful, and lives in Red Deer.

4. Shipping will kill you from the US to Canada, and is typically slow. Unless you can pick it up personally.

5. Can't help you with that one, other than to tell you that the upper on both my Series 1 cars is IN to the LIM from the WP, but the S2 design is kinda freaky i comparison.

6. I've looked at this myself, but in a different sense. I've considered bypassing the line that feeds the LIM on one of my cars and shunting it TO the heater core. Simply blocking it could cause backpressure problems with the water pump. Or even cavitation.

7. I would use new gaskets throughout, unless your LIM gaskets are under about 5k in miles and look pristine. It'* really not worth taking the chance. On the 'new motor', you should replace those gaskets. Don't re-use the UIM gaskets at all.
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 04:26 AM   #3
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Grande Cache, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bonnyitis is on a distinguished road
Default

The other rod bearing that didn't spin but it looks all spotty, did it get that way from corrosion because of Dexcool in the oil?
bonnyitis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 11:03 AM   #4
DINOSAURUS BOOSTUS

Expert Gearhead
 
BillBoost37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Enfield, CT
Posts: 41,391
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of lightBillBoost37 is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Most likely over time there was a very slight amount of coolant in the oil.

On the motor, it'* tough to say good versus bad. Most yards will test motors and trans before they pull them. However, did they let it heat up and run a long time..not usually.

On the motor swap, I've got plenty of tips/tricks when you get there..holler..
BillBoost37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006, 03:09 PM   #5
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta, _______Canada._______ West Coast Bonneville Fest ___05,06,07 Survivor___
Posts: 8,134
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
SSEimatt93 is on a distinguished road
Default

Found you an engine sir, out of a 2000 LeSabre, i bought my LIM from these guys, very good and professional
2000
Engine
Buick LeSabre LOOKS GOOD,COULD NOT RUN 83,960
--km--
135,201 050258 $1504.42
--Can--
$1699.99 Hall'* Auto & Truck Parts Can-AB(Ft.-Saskatchewan) E-mail 1-780-998-3913
SSEimatt93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2006, 08:36 PM   #6
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Grande Cache, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bonnyitis is on a distinguished road
Default

Ok I found an engine from a 2004 LeSabre, 20K km CAN$1550 at Ed'* in Westlock, Alberta. It'* a bad rear and side crash. They had to use the jaws of life. Any chance of the engine being out of alignment?
bonnyitis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2006, 10:20 PM   #7
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Grande Cache, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bonnyitis is on a distinguished road
Default

Got my new (2004) engine and I'm into the prep work before the swap. A few issues and observations:

The LIM gasket was the same old crap: the original poor LIM gasket with the grey sealing surfaces on a black plastic frame (12537197). Not even one of the three LIM 'improved' gasket versions. It was in OK condition, but I relaced it with one that has light green air passage sealing surfaces, and black coolant sealing surfaces on the aluminum frame (89017816) , and turned off that time bomb. Of course I also transferred my new UIM with the stainless EGR sleeve to the 2004.

The oil cap on the 2004 engine says 5W30 and the 2000 says 10W30. Why is that different?

The injector electric plugs are different. The 2004 injectors have 2 fuel orifices each and the 2000 have 6 orifices each. So I have to keep my old injectors. What'* the story with that? Would my PCM be compatible if I were to rewire the harness?
bonnyitis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2006, 10:36 PM   #8
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Grande Cache, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bonnyitis is on a distinguished road
Default



Got my new engine in! That was a freekin' big job. I pulled the fuel pump relay to see if she would get oil pressure while cranking before firing her up. The reason I'm worried is because the junkyard drained the oil and I cranked her a few times by hand without oil. I could hear the oil pump sucking air. Now that she'* in, I poured in the oil and cranked her with the starter for 10 seconds. There was no pressure on the dash gauge. I swapped the sender to my known good old sender, still no pressure.

Could the sender not register any pressure at only cranking speed?
Could the oil pump have lost prime?
What should I do?
bonnyitis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2006, 11:24 PM   #9
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
banned3800 is on a distinguished road
Default

The oil pump shouldn't have an issue... Did you fill the oil filter before you installed the new engine?

Also are you sure you heard the oil pump suck wind? Almost sounds as if you are describing the compression strokes of the engine...

And I don't think I have ever seen a reading on any 3800 untill just after the engine has started and presurized the system...

we have replaced 3800'* and have had pressure come up pretty quick after the start...

I'd say as long as you have the engine to capacity, and you filled the oil filter you should be ok to start it... If it does start, watch that oil pressure gage closely, it should not stay at 0 for more than a few seconds... If it does shut it off...

Not sure about the 5w30 or 10w30... Either or should work in my opinion

__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
banned3800 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2006, 11:54 PM   #10
Senior Member
Certified GM nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Western New York
Posts: 1,942
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Technical Ted is on a distinguished road
Default

I just went out & started my car - it took 4-5 seconds before the idiot light went out. I'd say fire it up for 5 seconds.
Technical Ted is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spun a bearing looks like-PHOTOS Mike 1992-1999 64 02-19-2007 03:30 PM
So I spun a rod bearing... DannyC 1987-1991 13 09-23-2004 04:06 AM
Spun Bearing or main bearing? Kennginn 1992-1999 3 08-05-2004 02:09 PM
Knock Knock continued (spun bearing) Spiral 1992-1999 5 05-25-2004 09:57 AM
Spun a bearing... (With small pics) Damemorder Lounge 20 04-10-2004 09:13 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:10 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.