EGR blocking
 

What would happen If I blocked of my EGR at the valve? Will I get any performance gains, and will it cause a SES light? Also where do you put the computer when you put in a CAI?

Blocking the EGR will give you no performance gains because the EGR is closed at WOT, blocking the EGR will only help to keep your engine clean. We have an EGR blockoff plate on the GTP for the simple reason of keeping the blower and Intercooler clean. You can buy the plate from ZZPerformance.com for $5. It goes where the EGR tube connects to the exhaust manifolds and then you just disconnect the tube for the egr from the manifolds and put the plate there. Then the EGR will just be letting in clean air. We have a filter on our EGR tube so the air that it sucks in is clean. If you just take out the EGR all together you will get an SES light, but I don't think the SES light will effect your performance any.

When you put in a CAI, you put the computer under it.

EGR blocking
 

On that little tube that runs from the EGR valve to under the TB. I plan on blocking it at the valve, and leaving it hooked up so it looks stock. I want to do it for the afor mentioned reason to have a cleaner engine; but also to cool the intake air. I know that hot exhaust can not be good for KR. One last question I notice you have the 1.9 ratio rockers; do they make a big differnce? Thanks for the help.

You cannot block it from the intake manifold (under the TB) to the EGR. You have to block it off from the exhaust manifolds to the EGR. If you block it off between the EGR and intake manifold you will get an SES light.

The hot air does not effect KR at all because the EGR is closed under WOT, which is the only time you get KR. Since the EGR is closed, no hot exhaust gasses go in, and no KR is added.

1.9 Rockers make a big difference. It is all topend power (4000-6000rpm) but it makes a big difference. You get about a 20 horsepower gain and you will be much happier with your car from a 70mph punch. They also help reduce KR quite a bit.

EGR Blocking
 

Sweet that was what I was trying to figure out. I appreciate your help.

Anytime.

SES Light
 

I blocked my EGR at the exhaust manifold before the EGR valve, and now I got a SES light. I am not really sure if that is what is causing it because I did gut my airbox, and remove my TB screen. Does anyone know how I can check my codes, and maybe reset them without having to go to a dealer or getting a scan tool?

Can you post a pic of what the EGR looks like now that it is blocked or at least describe what you did to block it. The SES may be the EGR and I want to try to help you find the problem.

EGR SES
 

I found out what it is. I blocked my EGR at the exhaust manifold by bending the pipe over. I was trying to make it look stock like nothing was done to it. The problem is I have found is the computer monitors the flow though the EGR. So, now like you said before I have to block it off at the exhaust maniflod and leave the EGR valve open so air can be sucked through it. I will have to put a filter on it like you did of course. I now see what you were talking about. Not a big deal once I get it fixed after a couple of cycles the light should go away. If not I can get it reset at the dealer fro free.

Yup, that is the problem. The light should go away after an hour or so of driving. You definately have to let the EGR get its airflow still. I have the number for the K&N filter that we put on our GTP, but I don't have it in front of me, I can probably get it and then let you know, but I can't remember where the package is, so I may not be able to get it right away.

EGR SES
 

Thanks, it does not affect my performance with the SES light on. It is just annoying.

Alright I finally got to fixing my EGR valve. Or so I thought. I unhooked the EGR valve at the exhaust manifold removed the steel flange that holds the tube to the manifold. I had that welded shut put it back on so I do not have any exhaust leaks. I next took a small filter and routed a hose from the inlet tube of my EGR to the filter. I still have the SES light, and now it seems my car is in "limp mode". Will this go away if I have the light reset? Any help would be great.

Although I am not sure exactly what you are saying I think I understand and if it is as you say it is there should be no problem. But limp mode will go away when the problem is fixed even if the light is still on, so it still has the problem. If you weren't so damn far away (I am in Michigan) I would check what the code is and try to figure out what the problem is, but that can't be done unless you are planning on coming to MI any time soon. It would really help if you could just get me a picture of what you did to the EGR so I can see if I can figure out what the problem is. DO NOT TAKE THE CAR TO THE DEALER! You disabled the EGR, they are not going to like that. Please get some pics, I can help you better with pics. The only thing I can think of is you screwed up the exhaust or something and that cause the PCM to switch to limp mode, it doesn't seem like the EGR could do that but I guess it could.

EGR SES
 

It was running fine when I had the EGR blocked, and it was getting no airflow. I just got an SES light, but the car ran fine. I did take it to the dealer and had them read the code. The code read that the EGR flow was insufficient. I had it reset, and it came back on about one minute later I did not even get out of the parking lot. That was when I had the EGR blocked at the exhaust manifold with the EGR getting no airflow. Following your instructions (not blaming you) I blocked the EGR port at the exhaust manifold and left the EGR tube open to the outside world with a filter of course. The car still has the SES light but now runs like shi... the tranny gets into high gears quicker, and it has almost no power. I just assume "limp mode". Anyway I will get the best pics I can, and post them for you tonight.

:shock: Shudder. I don't understand why you are messing with that. :?
What performance gains are you hoping to achieve :?: Sounds like you are creating a disaster. :nono:

Alright alright I feel like a dumb a!&. I was going to take the pics for you when I noticed the nut that holds the tube onthe intake side of the EGR was loose. I tightened it up it is running fine now. I took it to have the SES reset drove it for about a half hour and no light. I will post my pics anyway though. Wait how do you do that?

Simple things can cause big problems. That is why I always take extra care and precaution when modding. Since it is running right, and no SES light, why do I need to see pics.

I understand completely why he is messing with it. If you have ever seen how dirty the EGR makes your engine you would block it off as soon as you got a chance. I have seen a picture of an Intercooler removed after 1000 miles of use, and because of the EGR it was BLACK. The EGR just makes your engine filthy. It really makes your blower filthy too. We blocked it off for the main reason of not wanting to have to take our Intercooler out and clean it all the time (you have to clean it every 50,000 miles normally for optimum performance, with an EGR you have to clean it every 10-15,000 miles) Maybe I can get you some pics of what the EGR does. There is nothing wrong with leaving it in, as it won't hurt performance KR wise because it is closed under WOT, but it does make everything filthy, and dirt can restrict airflow, and after time that will cause you power loss, but it would take a bit of dirt. We plan on leaving it in the SSEi. If you don't have an Intercooler it isn't very necessary, but just basically helps to keep things clean.

Makes perfect sense. I blocked off the one in my Firebird too for heat reasons.
If I ever get an intercooler I will do it too.
ZZP says it reduces mileage by 1 mpg which isn't too bad..a good trade off for not having to tear down the top end to clean as often.
Thanks.

I don't know if this is true though. We didn't notice any loss in gas mileage in the GTP after removing it, if anything we got a gain in gas mileage. But, yeah, I don't see any real need to remove it unless you really want things clean or you have an IC. I don't see it coming off the SSEi anytime soon...although it may be coming off the TGP when I start modding it, as I will need basically every advantage I can get. (I am hoping low 13's or very high 12's with the stock turbo (very very small turbo (Garrett T25), and stock cam with it, it is the 3.1 Multi Port Fuel Injection engine, rated 205 horsepower stock, hoping to get it closer to 350 or 375. )

Anytime, as always.

EGR Blocking
 

I guess I should explain my whole reasoning behind blocking my EGR. It all started in back in 1977:) Just kidding it all did start after reading a free mod article on ZZP; I believe; talking about how the TB gasket can sometimes hang out into the air path and cause a smaller hole, and not to mention turbulence. Any way I was checking that out. I looked at the back of my TB and inside my blower, and it was nasty black. I wondered for a minute what would cause this, as all that is passing through there is air. Then I realized it was the EGR; so I was determined at that time to block it. I tell you I do not have an IC nor do I hope to gain any realizable HP. But you cannot tell me that the hot unfiltered exhaust gas entering into my SC helps anything. Not to mention what are the supposed benifits of EGR anyway? On my car it is only sampling the #6 cylinder. Anyway thanks for all the help it is running great now that I fixed my little screw up.

You guys are starting to convince me of the benefits, so I am considering doing it too.
What do you use for a filter now that the EGR is pumping in under hood air only :?:

I purchased one from a local speed shop. It looks like one that would go on your valve cover for crankcase ventilation. If I knew how to post pics I would show you a pic of mine tonight.

I would really appreciate if you could find out the Make and Part number for me.
My parts dealer here in this town is a dolt, if you know what I mean.

I just ordered a Trani shift kit and EGR block-off plate from ZZP !! :lol:

Your gonna love the nice shifts and clean engine. You won't regret the mods. I have the number for the K&N filter we used on the GTP, it looks really nice, and even says K&N on the chrome on the end. I think we ordered it from Jegs, but I have to look. I have been trying to find the package for a while now, I may have trashed it, but if I find it I will give you the #.

Here's the link from Jegs.
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...41&prmenbr=361

Just let me know which one. Thanks.
Also, what is the procedure for disconnecting and adding the block-off plate. I looks like a bear to get to.
I can hardly wait for my new toys. :flashbounce:

EGR Blocking
 

The bolt on the back of the manifold is the tuff one to get at it is a 10mm if you have a short ratchet with a 2" extension then it should not be to much of a hassle. The bolts that hold the EGR to the head are 13mm the top one you can get to with ratchet and an extention the lower one you will need a wrench. The nut that holds the tube from the intake to the EGR is 13mm also. As for the block off plate I did my own so I am not sure about the one from ZZP.

Oh, that really helps, thanks. I didn't see the 10mm bolt head in behind the rear manifold. All I saw was the part sticking out the frontside without a head on it.LOL.

So if I understand you, I have to remove the entire EGR to install it? Why? Does that make it easier to bend the tube to install the filter?

The ZZP plate is only $5.

EGR Blocking
 

No you do not have to remove the whole thing. I was just telling you how to do it.

You can get the filter here.

http://www.lastlaps.com/page37.htm

K&N Part number 62-2480. $6.55.

I remeber that I actually got ours for the GTP at summitracing.com (I don't know why I thought jegs), but I can't find it there, but another GTP member gave me this link, so that should be the filter. Looks right to me.

Hope this helps,

Shawn

Thanks.
Lastlap doesn't sell to Canada but I found the same filter at Jegs.....for $15.99.

dbtk2 - What do you say to this comment by one of the Moderators, JR's3800.??

I am assuming they are saying why the EGR valve is there??? If that is what they are saying, it doesn't seem to make any sense to me. Why would not having that hot air pour in all the time increase combustion temps? I have never heard anything like that before, the ONLY reason for the EGR is for emissions. That is ALL.

I will tell you that our '92 Olds 88, I am assuming doesn't have the EGR since it is the same as a '92 Bonneville, ran as good as the day we bought it with 10k on it when we sold it at 193k. I didn't see any negative effects of not having EGR. It actually ran a LOT better than our current '93 Olds 88 with 112k on it, which does have EGR.

I agree with you based on my own experience with removing EGR....even though it is an older carburated engine.
I'm still going to do it. I'm still wondering if the intercooler is necessary to do it to lower the combustion temps to acceptable levels with this more modern engine.....JR's3800 point about air to fuel ratios....but it still seems to be a reasonable risk because I don't run that hot for that long....lots of short trips in a cool climate.

Here's my answer to all this >>> http://www.bonnevilleattitude.com/fo...hp?p=3598#3598
8)

Thanks Alan.
It's always a good idea to venture into the unknown with both eyes wide open. :wink:

OK, after reading those posts I still don't understand why you would get higher combustion temps?? Would someone like to fill me in on this? It doesn't seem to make any sense to me that if you stop hot exhaust air from entering that it would lower combustion temps, hot air lowering combustion temps doesn't make any sense to me.

I think the fact that Zooomer (owner of ZZPerformance) has been doing this on his car for at least a year, along with many other GTP owners, including me, without any problems at all shows that it doesn't hurt anything, besides the fact that it doesn't make any sense why it would.

I'm just speaking from my own personal experiences with my OWN EGRless engine! I can tell you that this engine runs way hotter than any other 3800 I've come across! I've got the Cracked LH Exhaust Manifold & Burnt #6 Exhaust Valve to prove it too! :x This may also be the reason I can safely run a Bosch O2 Sensor w/o any ill effects too. :wink:

Actually you're not stopping the Hot Exhaust Gases, you're just redirecting them with the EGR Valve! So therefore, if you have no EGR Valve, the gases have no real place to go except by the Exhaust Valves & Exhaust Manifolds, hence eventually burning the Valves & Cracking the Manifolds! Remember EGR stands for "Exhaust Gases Recirculation"

Well it probably has something to do with the exhaust gases diluting the oxygen content so the mixture burns at a slightly lower temperature. You know, the old enthalpy triangle, fuel - oxygen - heat.

But...the Exhaust Gas on our Series II engines recirculates AFTER the exhaust valves from the rear exhaust manifold.
:roll:

I don't know what is wrong with your egr-less engine, but our '92 Olds 88 ran usually no hotter than 200 degrees, and it was completely stock the whole time we owned it. We had no problems with anything cracking, or burnt exhaust valves or anything, and as I said we sold it with 193,000 miles on it and it ran as good, if not better, than when we bought it with 10,000 on it. My suggestion to you is to run a colder thermostat and your problems should be solved. Maybe a drilled 160.

[/quote]But...the Exhaust Gas on our Series II engines recirculates AFTER the exhaust valves from the rear exhaust manifold. Actually you're not stopping the Hot Exhaust Gases, you're just redirecting them with the EGR Valve!

I've already solved the heat problem though, by running a drilled 180 (2 - 1/16" holes at 180 degrees apart) & switching from Mobil 1 to Amsoil synthetic 10W30 Oil & Amsoil Super Duty Oil Filter too. :wink:
I base my experience from other EGRless 3800's (including my own). Maybe it's the combined EGRless 3800 & the varied Temperature up here that causes it then, as I've seen quite a few now going through our GM Shop at work too. :?