Upper Intake Failure Information - Page 6 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 06-10-2004, 09:41 PM   #51
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ron350, of course you are right. The pieces are certainly not complicated, and can be turned out on any metal lathe. -even of the home variety. I studied the parts for quite a while, and even tried to find some "standard" hardware pieces that I could make work. But decided to just spent the money, get the parts, and get the car back on the road.

Making the parts would not be hard for anyone with the lathe. Personally, I think the new (modified) stovepipe could have a somewhat larger diameter than what the Ken-
Co kit is, but I'll bet they did their homework. I haven't disassembled the EGR valve itself, but I have a strong suspicion that the inside diameter of the Ken-Co part is at least as large as the ports themselves, so obviously no restriction of flow. Also, if I were to make the parts myself, I'd darn sure make the plenum sleeve a tiny bit smaller. In my opinion, the interferrence fit was way tighter than necessary. -especially since you are using epoxy anyway.

Harry
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Old 06-10-2004, 10:57 PM   #52
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Harry you are right about the EGR Valve. I took my EGR valve off the other day, to check the exhaust backpressure, and the Pintle valve is small.
Any way not trying to put down anyones product here. The Ken-Co stovepipe kit is a great concept and looks well made but is just over priced. To me it seams like every after market part for a 3800 is so over priced?
Walked into AutoZone and asked for an EGR gasket big mistake. These nuts wanted $12.95 for a gasket that the dealer charges $3.75 for. Must stay away from AZ.
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Old 06-11-2004, 08:48 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57chevythunder
ron350, of course you are right. The pieces are certainly not complicated, and can be turned out on any metal lathe. -even of the home variety. I studied the parts for quite a while, and even tried to find some "standard" hardware pieces that I could make work. But decided to just spent the money, get the parts, and get the car back on the road.

Making the parts would not be hard for anyone with the lathe. Personally, I think the new (modified) stovepipe could have a somewhat larger diameter than what the Ken-
Co kit is, but I'll bet they did their homework. I haven't disassembled the EGR valve itself, but I have a strong suspicion that the inside diameter of the Ken-Co part is at least as large as the ports themselves, so obviously no restriction of flow. Also, if I were to make the parts myself, I'd darn sure make the plenum sleeve a tiny bit smaller. In my opinion, the interferrence fit was way tighter than necessary. -especially since you are using epoxy anyway.

Harry
Going with the theme here of the Ken-Co part...

I ordered the part and followed all the procedures (even printed off their procedures from the website) and I couldn't get it to go on. The sleeve is supposed to go in the upper and the stovepipe is supposed to go in the lower. Problem is that they tell you in the instructions to remove the OEM stovepipe from the lower. I did that (and mangled the hell out of it getting it out) and then insert their stovepipe in it'* place. Problem is that their stovepipe was about .025" bigger than the port hole in the lower (much more than just an interferance fit)!! It was definitely a no-go. At that point it was about 6:00 on a Friday (needed the car for the weekend) and I tried to call them and got no answer so I just reshaped the mangled OEM stovepipe (took about an hour) and got it back in the lower. I called Gagnon'* to get a refund. They did with no questions asked. I am disappointed though, because it does truely seem like the fix to remove the heat from the EGR portion of the upper. I may have just gotten a defective size. I'm not sure.

I didn't have good luck with it at all. I'm just glad I got my $80 back!!
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:09 PM   #54
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vital49, WOW, what a bummer experience you had there

(-you know, it never ceases to amaze me how something can work so well for one person, but for the next person it is nothing but "the pits." )

As soon as I can get my son to help me, I'll post a picture to this thread which shows exactly what I did to remove the stock stove pipe.

(-to put it in words, I used a deep-well socket that just comfortably fit into the inside of the pipe(to keep it from crushing), then clamped the large vise-grips very tightly onto the pipe. Then placed a small flat piece of wood (about 1/4" thick) on the manifold beside the vise grip, and used a "rolling head" pry bar under the edge of the vise grip jaws to pry it straight up and out.)

I don't remember just exactly, but I may have smacked the pipe on the sides first a small hammer to break it'* grip. Heck, I've mechanic'd on all my own stuff (and relatives and friends) for so many years, I really don't think too much about the specific proceedures I use. -I guess it "just comes naturally."

I still do think, though, that the "interferance tolerances" on the Ken-Co parts is way tighter than necessary.

Hey, good luck to others that read this, and use the same kit.

Harry
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:39 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57chevythunder

(-to put it in words, I used a deep-well socket that just comfortably fit into the inside of the pipe(to keep it from crushing), then clamped the large vise-grips very tightly onto the pipe. Then placed a small flat piece of wood (about 1/4" thick) on the manifold beside the vise grip, and used a "rolling head" pry bar under the edge of the vise grip jaws to pry it straight up and out.)
I wish I would have done it that way!!! Instead I just clamped onto it with vise grips and twisted and twisted until it came out....it then looked like a pretzel!! LOL. Should have been more careful. I did surprise myself though with how close to perfect it looked after I got done reshaping it back to "normal."
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Old 06-23-2004, 10:56 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vital49
Quote:
Originally Posted by 57chevythunder

(-to put it in words, I used a deep-well socket that just comfortably fit into the inside of the pipe(to keep it from crushing), then clamped the large vise-grips very tightly onto the pipe. Then placed a small flat piece of wood (about 1/4" thick) on the manifold beside the vise grip, and used a "rolling head" pry bar under the edge of the vise grip jaws to pry it straight up and out.)
I wish I would have done it that way!!! Instead I just clamped onto it with vise grips and twisted and twisted until it came out....it then looked like a pretzel!! LOL. Should have been more careful. I did surprise myself though with how close to perfect it looked after I got done reshaping it back to "normal."
wowsa... mine was in so loose that we could just pick it up and out of the lower and the upper itself - the carbon buildup is the only thing that was holding it in one place...
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Old 06-23-2004, 01:41 PM   #57
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How many miles are on it? I was impressed with how little carbon build up I had after 78,000. But I don't drive it hard at all and am a maintenance freak!
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Old 06-23-2004, 02:15 PM   #58
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it wasn't horrible... it was about 1/16 or even 1/32 of an inch, but what was there was packed on so hard that a razor blade couldn't take most of it off.

oh, and my 96 has about 107 on it right now... i believe i'm the third owner, the former two both being over 60 years old...

matt
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Old 06-26-2004, 12:12 PM   #59
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Some folks had requested the service instructions, I have posted the PDF'* at these links...

http://home.rochester.rr.com/ebay342...eplacement.pdf

http://home.rochester.rr.com/ebay342...eplacement.pdf
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Old 07-07-2004, 12:59 PM   #60
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Hey guys, I just joined this forum after reading with great interest about this upper manifold problem. My wifes '96 Bonneville with 106K has been using coolant for several years now. Last summer I realized it was comming from the throttle body gasket and had heard about that problem. I changed coolant, as it was do anyway and added GM sealant tabs. That all but solved the problem. In the last year the coolant level has gone from the hot level to the cold level so it is very slow seepage. After reading all the info here I guess it is time to pull the upper manifold and see what it needs. The Ken-Co fix makes a lot of sense but for $80 I will custom make a new stove pipe and sleeve and use JB Weld for the epoxy (I have a lathe). Hopefuly the manifold is not in too bad of shape and sleeving it will eleviate having to buy a new manifold. If I understand correctly I can buy a new TB gasket seperatly? I wasn't planning on doing the lower as I have not heard of a problem with those until I read 57chevythunders post. Now I am debating it. Don't want to do it again as I suspect it will take me a week to straigten my back up again Any and all suggestions or tips are welcome and appreciated.
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