Traction Control Issue - Page 2 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


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Old 05-19-2005, 12:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBost37
Siping is a tire tread thing.

Know how when you get a car new the tires have a solid edge on the outside of the tire. This is to keep noise levels down. Unfortunately it also causes a problem in the rain. The water can only get squeezed front to reat of the tire.

Sipes are those nice side channels on tires. They allow the water to not only squeeze front to back, but also out the side. They provide much greater traction in all weather.
Woah! A little more info here (now that I've read it again).

1. Siping has nothing to do with noise. No effect whatsoever.
2. Siping doesn't go to the edge of the tire. Only the face of the tread, and stops 1" before the edge.
3. Siping is FANTASTIC in the rain. It gives you thousands more 'biting' edges on the tread, helps in all weather including dry and hot. Braking and accellerating.
4. Siping allows your tires to cool better and faster in the summer, extending tread life.
5. Most tire warranties are NOT affected by siping because of #4. They WANT you to do it.
6. Siping also helps in ice and snow.

Google it. Siping costs about $15 per tire, and is typically done mounted on the rim. Sipes are CUT lines in the tire, going from side to side. Molded in siping doesn't give you the thousands of tiny sharp edges to benefit from.

http://www.kaltire.com/retail/services/siping.php#
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Old 05-19-2005, 01:04 PM   #12
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And these guys do mine:

http://www.lesschwab.com/Siping.html
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Old 05-19-2005, 01:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBost37
Quote:
Originally Posted by willwren
First of all, 'resetting the computer' won't have any effect, as your PCM has nothing to do with traction and ABS on your year.

I'm assuming you're talking about the 93 SSEi?

If the ABS works, and the TC doesn't, it can't be the WSS. It could be the EBCM, but VERY unlikely.

Your most likely culprit, unfortunately is the PMV assembly with your symptoms. That part is about $750 from the dealer. You should really get it checked by the dealer (they have to use a special serial reader interface direct to the EBCM to get traction/ABS codes) before jumping on this, but from my experience with this system, that'* your likely culprit.

Try reseating the large connector at the PMV (under your airbox), but that probably won't do it.

Don't sweat it. My traction has been out for a year, and I don't miss it at all. Not even in our winters. I just air down the tires a couple pounds, and ease off the line. Get your tires siped. It'll be more useful than TC anyway.
Bill Is this the large round connector right near the TC or the large connector I think I saw on the 97 donor that hooks directly to the TC?
Yes it is. Press the read locking tab down, and twist.
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Old 05-19-2005, 11:06 PM   #14
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I check all the connectors and everything was good. I did notice one thing though when I turn the key on and the ABS light goes out the traction light goes out for a split second and then I hear a clicking from the PMV.
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Old 05-20-2005, 12:40 AM   #15
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Ok, I'll attempt to explain your problem through beer clouded brains:

Inside the PMV are 2 valves. Ok, there'* more than 2, but only 2 you're worried about with TC (ignore ABS). There'* also a pump. That'* the big round sob on the PMV assembly and is only used for traction, not ABS.

So the pump pressurizes part of the PMV (the traction portion) at startup and self-test. That pressure is held back by the two valves. This is only true on the Teves systems used through 95 (some slight differences).

When the EBCM (electronic brake control module, otherwise known as the EBCTM on the Teves Mark IV system that came out in 95 I think?) detects a loss of traction by comparing the rear WSS (wheel speed sensors) to the front WSS, it opens one of the two valves in a pulsing manner (similar to the duty cycle of a fuel injector) to the front wheel that is spinning fastest in order to control traction.

What usually fails in the PMV assemblies on cars as old as ours is the coil that opens the valve. Coils make no noise. If the clicking is coming from under the hood, I'm betting the pump to build the pressure isn't turning, the self-test fails, and it throws a light. If the clicking is from INSIDE the car, I don't have a clue.

Class is out. You may all go to recess now.
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:32 PM   #16
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Ohhhh Goodie...I love recess. Thanks Professor. Is there any part on these cars you don't have in-depth knowledge about? Some days I'm stunned into drinking and trying to keep up with you oh master of the bonnie.

Dad was a tire guy for years... told me the siping was the outter edges of the tread. My question...if all those little cuts (which no one does around here) is siping..then what is what I'm talking about? (For future I can at least call it the right thing...lol)
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:36 PM   #17
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Not sure what you're talking about. Got a pic or a link? BTW, alot of shops do siping. I gaurantee you can find one in your area if you look hard enough. The only disadvantage, is that when doing a burnout on non-siped tires, they heat up and gradually gain traction back. With siping, it burns out just as easily, but gains traction back all at once. BAM goes the load on the Differential. Just remember that if you sipe.

On the TC issue, you might want to smack that motor/PMV with a rubber or plastic hammer/mallet. It might just have something stuck. Or consider bleeding your brakes.

I've done alot of research and work on ABS/Traction for the old Teves systems our cars use. There were some big gaps in our knowledge a couple years ago, so I filled them. All the above was off the top of my head. Even the Chilton'* manual, which describes the system, doesn't get into that kind of detail.
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:42 PM   #18
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I knew that was off the top of your head. lol...that'* why we are scared of ya Bill.

You could win Bonne Jepoardy w/o trying.

You know where I am at the moment. Can't hit you with pics. You know brand new dealer tires have solid outter edge to be quiet. Then look at a nice set of Michelins...they have spaces in the outter edge to allow water/snow to come out.
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Old 05-20-2005, 02:52 PM   #19
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i have used snow tires the last two winters (dedicated snow tires)...i've also had them siped...and between the softer tread and siping, my buick was unstoppable...i drove down a closed i-state 94 all the way to detroit in a huge blizzard...basically, i was the only one on the road...everyone else was in the middle ditch..semis, cars, 4x4'*...seriously...and here i am in my good 'ol buick lumbering along...i'm sold on snow tires...

btw, discount tire sipes for $10 a tire.
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Old 05-20-2005, 04:56 PM   #20
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I swear by siping, too.

Siping is VERY difficult to see. Micro cuts. I can take pics of it if you want.
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