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1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

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Old 07-30-2005, 01:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBost37
Need...no ... want to ....maybe. If you are modded pretty well you will want to... stock..I didn't because I don't want to change it for winter
not much of a winter here lol
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Old 07-30-2005, 02:19 AM   #12
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lol so should i drill it or leave it alone.. i need ot know before tommroow thats when im doing all this stuff
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Old 07-30-2005, 02:39 AM   #13
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also checked my injectors with a multimeter they all read fine but i wanna know what the resistance should be between the two terminals like brand new injectors would read. Mine read about 18 ohms. My bosch spark plugs wires ahve resistance from 792 ohms (smallest) to about 1.8K for largest.
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Old 07-30-2005, 02:43 AM   #14
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Personally, I say leave the T-stat at the factory 195. It was put there for a reason.

The PCV valve should have an O-ring on it.
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Old 07-30-2005, 02:46 AM   #15
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well a cooler running engine would be beneficial for ware and tear? The pcv which i thought would have an o ring didnt have one on the stock piece when i took it out carefully idk how much difference an o ring would make but i installed the new one and it works ....hhmmm
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Old 07-30-2005, 04:08 AM   #16
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I'm not certain about the 95 models, but I think there is supposed to be an o-ring on the PCV valve. If it is missing it will cause high oil consumption, a vacuum leak (which can cause idle quality issues, and possibly a "squeak or whistle" noise from the engine at idle.....caused by engine vacuum being pulled past the crank seals.

As for the T-stat, GM engineers designed this engine to run at 195 for various reasons, one being fuel efficiency. The hotter an engine runs, the more efficient it is on fuel. But there is a breaking point. 195 is far below that point but still in the range for optimal fuel economy.

By lowering the engine temp you are sacrificing fuel efficiency because the computer sees this lower temp and compensates by adding more fuel per "pound" of air. It'* called stoichiometric ratio. In an ideal engine environment you should be using 14.7 parts of air to every 1 part of fuel.....14.7:1... stoichiometric ratio.

Now that ratio changes every second the engine is running. For example, if your running at WOT the ratio is more like 12.5:1 and if your coasting the ratio is very low...like 40:1.

When you make the engine run below its optimal efficiency temperature you are also telling the computer that the engine is running cooler than its optimal efficiency temperature. The computer will adjust the fuel-to-air ratio to compensate for this "below optimal operating temperature".

The result is a cooler running engine that is using more fuel than it needs to in order to produce the same amount of power than it could at a higher (yet very safe) temperature.

Let me ask this, If anyone here was to go out and buy a used car, whatever model, and had to choose between two identical vehicles but one was modified with a 180 t-stat and the other was completely stock........which would you choose?

Have any of you ever heard of Smokey Yunick? Did you happen to hear about "Smokey" Henry Yunick'* adiabatic engine? He holds several patents. He managed to get 150 Hp and 60 MPG out of a 78 ci. 2 cyl motor.
He did NOT accomplish this by running the engine cool....in fact, he ran it to the edge of "melt down" to accomplish this kind of power and efficency from such a small engine.

One more thing, just to touch on the subject, did you know that some of the earliest gasoline internal combustion engines were only about 20 % efficient? And the most efficient internal combustion gasoline engine today is only about 29 % efficient?

Kind of makes you go....Hmmmmmmmm? Doesn't it?
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Old 07-30-2005, 04:37 AM   #17
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so there is no point to the 180 other then a little cooler? I thoguht the way people talked about it o nthe forum it would be an upgrade..... well whatever is better im going to give this one a try see how it goes. How much stock Hp does my bonnie have? I think im having performance issues im not feeling all of its potential.
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Old 07-30-2005, 05:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxuriesPremier
so there is no point to the 180 other then a little cooler?.
Well no matter what I give for reasons to back my statement, there are going to be folks that will "try" to tell you I'm wrong. But yes, you will be wasting money by installing a 180 t-stat.

Running your engine 15 degrees cooler than the computer sees fit will only result in a slight decrease in preformance and a slight decrease in efficency...(MPG).

I say slight because it is a small change...This is where folks get confused. They read on the net that "a 180 t-stat will gain them 20 hp and at the same time drop the engine temp 15 degrees"!............BULL NUTS!

The only thing that T-stat will do is make you feel more comfortable because your engine runs cooler. Cooler than what? Cooler than it SHOULD BE!!! Not cooler than it needs to be!

Ohh, ohh, ohh, I need to catch my breath here.
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Old 07-30-2005, 01:47 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fatcat
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxuriesPremier
so there is no point to the 180 other then a little cooler?.
Well no matter what I give for reasons to back my statement, there are going to be folks that will "try" to tell you I'm wrong. But yes, you will be wasting money by installing a 180 t-stat.

Running your engine 15 degrees cooler than the computer sees fit will only result in a slight decrease in preformance and a slight decrease in efficency...(MPG).

I say slight because it is a small change...This is where folks get confused. They read on the net that "a 180 t-stat will gain them 20 hp and at the same time drop the engine temp 15 degrees"!............BULL NUTS!

The only thing that T-stat will do is make you feel more comfortable because your engine runs cooler. Cooler than what? Cooler than it SHOULD BE!!! Not cooler than it needs to be!

Ohh, ohh, ohh, I need to catch my breath here.
did we state is gives you 20 hp, no. If you read up on this site 1fatcat, you would know that Bonnevilles are prone to overheating, and so many people change to 180 t-stats. Check out this article buddy: http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/techinfo/?article=26

It states this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techinfo
Factory thermostats from 92-98 were rated at 195. Pontiac realized the problem and the 1999 was released with a 180 Thermostat. The 1992 NA models were impacted more by this as they are an EGR-less design. This heat problem can cause intake cracks, engine wear, overheating, and can contribute to burnt valves.

Change the thermostat to a 180. You can buy it from the dealer or any auto parts store. You will need a rubber seal and a gasket. The gasket is only available from the dealer. Thermostat and gasket should cost less than $20(US), and the repair should take less than an hour.

Some owners also recommend adding a transmission cooler, in some cases, even if you already have one.
I am going to change mine if my dad hasnt already to 180. Luxuries Premier, I would change to a 180 t-stat. It doesnt give you more HP, but it will keep you cooler, which can help you from losing HP to heatsoak. It is also the first thing to change if you are going to do any mods.

Hope this helps,
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Old 07-30-2005, 02:28 PM   #20
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Ok well tune ups i have done are new spark plugs tr-55 NGk new spark plug wires fuel filter pcv valve (which didnt come wiht any 0-rings neither did my stock one have one) 180 T-stat, oil change with K&N oil filter. Im trying mostly to regain the "loss" power and prolong the lfie of this engine Then start modding her with new intake and such.
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