Plastic Intake plenum... Request for opinions 1997 SE
01-21-2006, 03:25 PM
#11
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Re: Lowers
Originally Posted by SSEBONNE4EVA
We should also mention that Felpro gaskets have performed well for the BC club members.
I think Vital and JR had theirs apart after some miles and found no wear at all.
Please chime in here if you will.
I think Vital and JR had theirs apart after some miles and found no wear at all.
Please chime in here if you will.
On my 91 the Fel Pro gaskets looked like brand new when I pulled them out... I was pleased with that finding..
And if Fel Pros ase used on the 3800 II engines try to get the second generation with the metal washers in the gasket that avoids over tightening... From what I understans its better than the first design..
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01-22-2006, 02:05 PM
#12
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I know the parts shop where I buy most of my stuff sells alot of FelPro. I will specifically ask for why you guys recommend......
I just want to make sure.....
With regard to the lower intake manifold, all I have to change is the gaskets, right ? .... not the actual lower intake manifold.
Since I haven't attempted to do any of this work yet and from what I read here it sounds like the Upper intake manifold gets deformed because it is made of some kind of plastic and is near the EGR pipe thing. The lower intake gasket originally installed by GM were less than perfect and so a gasket set for the lower intake manifold is also required.... but since the lower intake manifold is metal, ( Aluminum ), then unless this part has cracked or something, the LIM should be OK with a new set of FelPro gaskets.
Do I have this about right ?
Thanks,
Jack
I just want to make sure.....
With regard to the lower intake manifold, all I have to change is the gaskets, right ? .... not the actual lower intake manifold.
Since I haven't attempted to do any of this work yet and from what I read here it sounds like the Upper intake manifold gets deformed because it is made of some kind of plastic and is near the EGR pipe thing. The lower intake gasket originally installed by GM were less than perfect and so a gasket set for the lower intake manifold is also required.... but since the lower intake manifold is metal, ( Aluminum ), then unless this part has cracked or something, the LIM should be OK with a new set of FelPro gaskets.
Do I have this about right ?
Thanks,
Jack
01-22-2006, 06:34 PM
#14
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Well there is one more option you may wish to consider. See this post:
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...ic.php?t=33565
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/...ic.php?t=33565
01-22-2006, 06:56 PM
#15
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found this on ebay, i think its from the same place my dad got his for his 96 Caprice LT1.
it looks good and works good if its the same as my dads
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PONTI...temZ8031865417
and heres one for 97-05
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/IMPAL...temZ8031865246
it looks good and works good if its the same as my dads
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PONTI...temZ8031865417
and heres one for 97-05
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/IMPAL...temZ8031865246
01-22-2006, 06:59 PM
#16
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01-22-2006, 07:39 PM
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Can I piggyback here ? I'm in desperation mode!
Hi all, newbie here in a crunch. I don't want to start a new thread since
I see it'* everyone'* worst nightmare. This is a little long, but I'm venting too!
It'* the dreaded UIM / LIM gasket thing. I'm a new sufferer of the disease. My WIFE'* 97 SE with about 105K died last Saturday. Here'* her description:
All normal.
Pulled up to light to make left.
Started "chugging"
Made left , "chugged about 200yds" with some whitish smoke.
Parked in a lot,, turned it off. Has not fired since.
So had it towed home, investigated, see Coolant level is down about a gallon. There'* a trickle on the trans below the crossover pipe and get a backfire which spew a couple drops of coolant into the throttle body.
OK... 3800'* known for gasket blowouts etc... "I can do it" ... Get set of gaskets, start taking parts off. Get my fine plastic plenum cover off, I have soup in the manifold. See pix below. Remove manifold, have it cleaned, I'm in business. Or so I think.
Everything goes back together pretty well. Learn a few things about FI , etc.. etc..
Now for the problem. It still won't start. I've got spark, I've got fuel pressure. I've got compression. I have no fire. I am getting torqued. I'm at desperation stage. The wife is looking at new cars. It'* her birthday
(today) !!!!! HELP!
Not once has it even hinted it would kick over. The next thing I'm concerned about is the injectors. They have the 12V on them (the ones I've checked) but I can't feel or hear them 'clicking' when I crank her.
Is it terminal?
Assuming they are working what else can I be looking for Please help!
Thanks Nim
[/img]
I see it'* everyone'* worst nightmare. This is a little long, but I'm venting too!
It'* the dreaded UIM / LIM gasket thing. I'm a new sufferer of the disease. My WIFE'* 97 SE with about 105K died last Saturday. Here'* her description:
All normal.
Pulled up to light to make left.
Started "chugging"
Made left , "chugged about 200yds" with some whitish smoke.
Parked in a lot,, turned it off. Has not fired since.
So had it towed home, investigated, see Coolant level is down about a gallon. There'* a trickle on the trans below the crossover pipe and get a backfire which spew a couple drops of coolant into the throttle body.
OK... 3800'* known for gasket blowouts etc... "I can do it" ... Get set of gaskets, start taking parts off. Get my fine plastic plenum cover off, I have soup in the manifold. See pix below. Remove manifold, have it cleaned, I'm in business. Or so I think.
Everything goes back together pretty well. Learn a few things about FI , etc.. etc..
Now for the problem. It still won't start. I've got spark, I've got fuel pressure. I've got compression. I have no fire. I am getting torqued. I'm at desperation stage. The wife is looking at new cars. It'* her birthday
(today) !!!!! HELP! Not once has it even hinted it would kick over. The next thing I'm concerned about is the injectors. They have the 12V on them (the ones I've checked) but I can't feel or hear them 'clicking' when I crank her.
Is it terminal?
Assuming they are working what else can I be looking for Please help!
Thanks Nim
[/img]
01-22-2006, 08:08 PM
#18
First off....have you drained the oil and refilled it with fresh?? The coolant mixed with the oil can do serious damage to your bearings. Get that out ASAP if you haven't done so already.
Regarding the not starting issue...have you verified all your electrical connections? Especially at the injectors.
Where are you located in Detroit? I'm north of Detroit, near Flint. If you're local I'd be happy to stop by and help you out. PM me if interested.
Regarding the not starting issue...have you verified all your electrical connections? Especially at the injectors.
Where are you located in Detroit? I'm north of Detroit, near Flint. If you're local I'd be happy to stop by and help you out. PM me if interested.
01-22-2006, 10:47 PM
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Thanks
Vital,
Thanks for the quick reply. I have not replaced the oil but will tomorrow. Can this problem wet the cylinders so bad they can't even dry out?
As far as the connectors... I've been over all of them at least twice.
I've tried cranking with fuel pump off, fuel pump on, plugs in plugs out.
With the pump off (fuse out) plugs stay dry. Anytime the fuel pump is enables I get good fuel pressure in the high 40'* that drops to about 40 during cranking and the plugs come out soaked.
How easy is it to tell if the injectors are clicking? I've tried touching with a screwdriver, my head in the manifold, bare hand... I just can't tell.
I'm in Clinton Twp. and I appreciate the offer, I might have to take you up if this gets to be a career!
Thanks Again,
Nim
Thanks for the quick reply. I have not replaced the oil but will tomorrow. Can this problem wet the cylinders so bad they can't even dry out?
As far as the connectors... I've been over all of them at least twice.
I've tried cranking with fuel pump off, fuel pump on, plugs in plugs out.
With the pump off (fuse out) plugs stay dry. Anytime the fuel pump is enables I get good fuel pressure in the high 40'* that drops to about 40 during cranking and the plugs come out soaked.
How easy is it to tell if the injectors are clicking? I've tried touching with a screwdriver, my head in the manifold, bare hand... I just can't tell.
I'm in Clinton Twp. and I appreciate the offer, I might have to take you up if this gets to be a career!
Thanks Again,
Nim
01-23-2006, 08:38 AM
#20
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Get that oil out NOW. Yesterday or the day it happened would be better. I'm serious. Regardless of your plans today, drop them, and drain it NOW. <-------can't stress this enough.
I see references to you replacing the gaskets, but I don't see where you replaced the Upper Manifold? I haven't had coffee yet, so someone correct me if I missed it.
Edit:
Read it again and I still have the impression that your manifold wasn't replaced, only cleaned. You MUST replace it. It has eroded the EGR stovepipe area and is allowing the coolant passage to leak into the UIM under vacuum.
Draining the oil and flushing it out very well is paramount. We have had cases here (a few) where someone in your situation has a total lower end failure a few hundred or thousand miles later due to the bottom end rusting.
Your starting problems are due to the fact that the UIM is still leaking. You also need to remove the LIM and replace all 4 gaskets under it as well. At this point, valvecover gaskets wouldn't be a bad idea. You can manually flush the valvetrain out with oil once everything is off.
I see references to you replacing the gaskets, but I don't see where you replaced the Upper Manifold? I haven't had coffee yet, so someone correct me if I missed it.
Edit:
Read it again and I still have the impression that your manifold wasn't replaced, only cleaned. You MUST replace it. It has eroded the EGR stovepipe area and is allowing the coolant passage to leak into the UIM under vacuum.
Draining the oil and flushing it out very well is paramount. We have had cases here (a few) where someone in your situation has a total lower end failure a few hundred or thousand miles later due to the bottom end rusting.
Your starting problems are due to the fact that the UIM is still leaking. You also need to remove the LIM and replace all 4 gaskets under it as well. At this point, valvecover gaskets wouldn't be a bad idea. You can manually flush the valvetrain out with oil once everything is off.