lifter clatter on cold start up - Page 2 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-31-2003, 09:50 AM   #11
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Brewerton NY
Posts: 551
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
karfreek is on a distinguished road
Default

Ive got to clear something up here. Synthetic Oil is not "thinner" than conventional oil. Oil is as thick or thin as the rating on the bottle. Synthetic oil will howver flow better when it is extrememly cold out.

As for 3800'* clattering at startup, I have not experienced it. Even after an oil change it will not clatter. This goes for both my 99 and my dads 96 Ultra. It is common for GM Cars to do it over 100k tho, so it is possible.

One thing you might want to try is useing an AC Delco oil filter. There is a check valve in the filter to keep oil from back flowing in the filter for a number of reasons. One of them to keep oil in the engine for start up. AC Delco have been shown in indepentent testing to be the best, Fram the worst. I had clatter on my 4.3L Sonoma, I used an AC Filter and it was significantly reduced. Same goes for my Brothers 99 Sierra with the 5.3L.

Jay
karfreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2003, 12:23 PM   #12
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Bellbrook, Ohio
Posts: 547
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
compyelc4 is on a distinguished road
Default

95nasta-

Thanks for the information about the restricted pushrods. Interesting concept. Are these commonly used in non-raced engines? Anyone on this site using them, cause you just have to? I would think that under higher-than-idle rpms, whether racing or everyday driving, a leak down problem would not be a concern. At least on the Bonne, lifters are too easy to replace if they do wear excessively, but I don't know that this problem is common at all to Bonne'*. I'd say if you can hear the chatter with the doors closed and windows up and the sound lasts for more than 30 sec. then you might want to consider replacement lifters, or another alternative. From the noise the 3400'* and 3800'* make in this family, it is really quite unnoticeable on the few occasions it does occur. Don't know why the condition is soooo sporadic.

I've noticed that running 10w-40 year round seems to limit the number of cold starts on a hot day that my old Bonne exhibits this problem (notice I said hot day). I've never experienced chatter with a cold start on a cold day. Guess that'* because the oil thickness when cold tends to keep the oil in the lifters. Also, I've never experienced chatter after an oil and filter change. One thing I do know: a little sporadic lifter chatter on start up seems to have no long-lasting effect on the overall integrity of pontiac v6 engines. Just go ask about any Bonne or Grand Am owner on this site. These engines are freekin' tough. Bring on them so-called long-lasting Toyota and Beemer iron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

karfreek-

I believe I used the term "thinner" when referring to synthetic. I run synthetic in my rediculously babied '95 C4 Vette and I swear by the stuff because I run her hard and change the oil only seasonally (after about 3,000 miles per year during spring and summer). I would not run it in my Bonne because I am not hard on that engine and standard oil works just fine. Maybe "thinner" is the wrong term but it definitely flows easier when cold and hot. And it seems to "stick" to surfaces and stays there after shutdown ensuring a nice lubed startup the next time. Also it is proven that synthetic oils will work past seals and gaskets where standard oil of the same viscosity will not. Of you petroleum experts out there , "why does synthetic of the same viscosity under the same temperature conditions flow as if it has a "thinner" viscosity. Hmmmmm?
compyelc4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2003, 03:28 PM   #13
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Westerville, Ohio 2000 Black SSEi
Posts: 6,127
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rogue is on a distinguished road
Default

Both of my cars exhibit this ticking. Jeff at intense said it was the fuel rails (possibly the injectors firing?) and that it was normal for 3800'*. I trust INTENSE and if they say its normal then im not worried about it. Besides cant hear it over the whine anyway
Rogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2003, 03:58 PM   #14
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Brewerton NY
Posts: 551
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
karfreek is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by compyelc4
karfreek-

I believe I used the term "thinner" when referring to synthetic. I run synthetic in my rediculously babied '95 C4 Vette and I swear by the stuff because I run her hard and change the oil only seasonally (after about 3,000 miles per year during spring and summer). I would not run it in my Bonne because I am not hard on that engine and standard oil works just fine. Maybe "thinner" is the wrong term but it definitely flows easier when cold and hot. And it seems to "stick" to surfaces and stays there after shutdown ensuring a nice lubed startup the next time. Also it is proven that synthetic oils will work past seals and gaskets where standard oil of the same viscosity will not. Of you petroleum experts out there , "why does synthetic of the same viscosity under the same temperature conditions flow as if it has a "thinner" viscosity. Hmmmmm?
I ment no harm in what I said, please dont take offense to it. I have heard that the conventional oils are stickier and will adhere to engine parts better. Infact many engine builders suggest that you run your first 500-1000 mi on conventional oil to break in the parts. Then switch to synthetic.

I have been using Quaker State 10w-30 High Horse Power Engine Synthetic Blend in both my SSEi and L98 89 Trans Am since I have taken ownership. I have not experienced any problems with it leaking at the seals, so maybe that could be a happy medium for your Bonnie . Sorry, I was not trying to be a jerk.

Love to see pics of the Vette!!!

Jay
karfreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2003, 04:27 PM   #15
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Bellbrook, Ohio
Posts: 547
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
compyelc4 is on a distinguished road
Default

Jay,

No offense taken, but your comment did get me thinking about whether pure synthetic is "thinner" than comparable wt. std. motor oil.

I'd like to post a pic of the vette, but I've got to figure out how to do that. Something about storing my pic on another site and then referencing that site in my response?? I'll figure it out.
compyelc4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2004, 06:09 AM   #16
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta, _______Canada._______ West Coast Bonneville Fest ___05,06,07 Survivor___
Posts: 8,134
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
SSEimatt93 is on a distinguished road
Default

My Bonneville does that every morning..its usually around 0 deg.F out, and im running 5w30, its a loud clicking for about 1 second then its gone...not near as bad as my park ave with the constant knock that grew louder and faster with the RPMS lol
SSEimatt93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2004, 01:29 PM   #17
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
FireRescue is on a distinguished road
Default

One thing that may contribute to lifter noise on a cold start is the oil filter. If the anti-drainback valve is not working properly it will allow the oil to drainback out of the filter. When you first start the car it will have to fill the oil filter first and then the oil will begin to circulate to the engine.

If you recently changed the oil/filter and are now experiencing this problem, I would say the oil filter is the culprit.
FireRescue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2004, 02:05 PM   #18
Junior Member
Posts like a Ricer Type-R
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
willwren is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireRescue
One thing that may contribute to lifter noise on a cold start is the oil filter. If the anti-drainback valve is not working properly it will allow the oil to drainback out of the filter. When you first start the car it will have to fill the oil filter first and then the oil will begin to circulate to the engine.

If you recently changed the oil/filter and are now experiencing this problem, I would say the oil filter is the culprit.
Very good point. And I agree with Don. We've had this discussion a few times before. The brand of fuel filter or PCV may not matter, but do your research on oil filters. I used to run AC Delco, but now run K&N. It has a better cold or hot flow rate, and a better particulate filtering capability than most other 'aftermarket' filters. I know AC Delco is good. Anyone know who makes 'em?
willwren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2004, 10:19 PM   #19
Member
Posts like a V-Tak
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 71
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
helikon is on a distinguished road
Default ac delco oil filter

Pretty sure AC oil filters are made by Delphi as well as Champion Laboratories (not Champion sparkplug).Champion makes filters under hundreds of labels to all different specifications, including Mobil 1,STP,Bosch,Walmarts Supertech.As you said they're a decent filter,about 25 micron nominal filtration.I like to buy the ones with the bigger holes in the center tube inside the filter.Gotta go, I'm givin' people headaches with my wordy posts.
helikon is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
help with engine clatter kristie_jeff 2000-2005 1 02-18-2008 12:28 AM
Valve clatter GXP Venom Bonneville GXP/ Northstar Powered Cars 6 06-03-2007 08:12 PM
Loud Lifter Tick on cold startups wjcollier07 1987-1991 48 12-14-2006 06:14 PM
Header clatter Allmachtige Performance, Brainstorming & Tuning 21 10-28-2004 01:31 PM
series 1 clatter fantastic88 1992-1999 10 07-02-2004 12:50 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:26 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.