Emergency mechanical problem...gearheads needed - Page 2 - GM Forum - Buick, Cadillac, Chev, Olds, GMC & Pontiac chat


1992-1999 Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's and Buick Lesabres Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-23-2004, 03:02 PM   #11
Senior Member
Posts like a Corvette
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,305
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hailey is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks again guys. I'm still relaying info to Nathan (he has no internet connection at home) and hopefully one of these things will pan out. So far he'* checked the alternator, and the relay...no luck yet. If you have any more ideas, keep 'em coming...he'* trying everything.
Hailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004, 03:30 PM   #12
Senior Member
Posts like a Northstar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Brewerton NY
Posts: 551
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
karfreek is on a distinguished road
Default

I gotta go with crank sensor on this one. Happened the same way to a guy I work with, only this was on a 3.1 V6.

jay
karfreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004, 04:18 PM   #13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
nh3800II is on a distinguished road
Default

Hey everyone - Nathan here - finally got to a computer! Thanks to Hailey and the rest of the forum for the assistance and suggestions. Here'* where it is:
Replaced the alternator (Auto parts store tested it, said it was dead)
Checked to make sure plenty of gas in it (that would have been a story!)
Because of the suggestion from this forum, I checked the fuel pump - at the moment I cannot hear it when I turn the key to "On", and normally I can hear this from the driver'* seat, so I have proceeded on the assumption that it'* a fuel pump problem.
Replaced the Fuel Pump Relay - No effect, and cannot hear the fuel pump kick in. I can hear the relay clicking when I turn the key to on, and then clicking again after two seconds.

Sounds like the fuel pump needs to be replaced, or that there is an electrical problem between the relay and the pump. I read somewhere that you can bypass the relay and apply 12V to test the pump itself, but I haven't found any explicit instructions on how to do this. I'm also trying to figure out if the faulty alternator could have created another problem, if this is a red herring, or if the autoparts store was mistaken. Any other suggestions? I'm having it towed to a highly-recommended garage tommorrow night (when I get back from the other side of the state) and have it professionally diagnosed - I don't consider myself enough of an expert to remove the fuel tank and change the pump myself - especially in the middle of a parking lot!

Thanks again!
Nathan
nh3800II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004, 04:36 PM   #14
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,409
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
acg_ssei is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nh3800II
]Hey everyone - Nathan here
Audience: HI, NATHAN!

Quote:
Because of the suggestion from this forum, I checked the fuel pump - at the moment I cannot hear it when I turn the key to "On", and normally I can hear this from the driver'* seat, so I have proceeded on the assumption that it'* a fuel pump problem.
Replaced the Fuel Pump Relay - No effect, and cannot hear the fuel pump kick in. I can hear the relay clicking when I turn the key to on, and then clicking again after two seconds.
Question for the others here: Is this really a valid test after the first couple of tries? What I mean is, once the fuel pump pressurizes the fuel line the first time, is it actually going to activate on the follow-on attempts, if the pressure hasn't actually gone back down?

Aside from that, just to doublecheck here:

1) The starter cranks the engine over at a good speed, yes?

2) Does the engine _ever_ fire? Does it sound like it _almost_ does? (i.e. one or two pops, at least?)

3) Have you tried spraying starting fluid in the intake, to see if it will run once fuel (of some kind) is provided?

4) Did you check my question about pulling the vacuum line off the regulator to see if it'* gotten full of gasoline?
acg_ssei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004, 05:55 PM   #15
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
nh3800II is on a distinguished road
Default

Hey Andy!
1. Engine cranks at a good speed - my battery at least is still good!
2. When this problem first started, I had driven the car less than 3 miles in about 5 minutes from a cold start first thing in the morning. No noticable signs of trouble. I stopped the car, ran into the convenience store, came out and tried to restart the vehicle less than 3 minutes later. The first couple of times, the engine would fire, and then immediately die. After doing that 2-3 times, it stopped firing at all, and now it only cranks.
3. I have not tried starting fluid - I can try that when I get back there tommorrow.
4. Ditto on the vacuum line.

One final question for everyone - is there any other switch or relay, like the oil pressure switch, that could be defective and interrupting the fuel pump?

Thanks Andy!
nh3800II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2004, 12:18 PM   #16
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,409
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
acg_ssei is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nh3800II
2. When this problem first started, I had driven the car less than 3 miles in about 5 minutes from a cold start first thing in the morning. No noticable signs of trouble. I stopped the car, ran into the convenience store, came out and tried to restart the vehicle less than 3 minutes later. The first couple of times, the engine would fire, and then immediately die. After doing that 2-3 times, it stopped firing at all, and now it only cranks.
3. I have not tried starting fluid - I can try that when I get back there tommorrow.
If you're encountering a cold car at that time, and it does start up for you, drive it right home before you do anything else. Don't shut it down again even once along the way.

Quote:
4. Ditto on the vacuum line.
Please do the vacuum line, because the symptoms you describe above fit a flooded fuel-pressure regulator (among other things).

Quote:
One final question for everyone - is there any other switch or relay, like the oil pressure switch, that could be defective and interrupting the fuel pump?
The VATS system will disable the fuel pump if it detects the wrong key being used to start the car (this is assuming you have a resistor chip in your ignition key...?), but you will have a yellow Security light blazing away solid on the dash for three minutes afterwards if this occurs. You haven't mentioned that at all so I don't think it applies here.
acg_ssei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2004, 11:15 AM   #17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
nh3800II is on a distinguished road
Default

OK - an update on the situation, and additional questions!!!
I had it towed to a highly-recommended garage (private, not a dealer!), and after testing the electrical system, he confirmed it was the fuel pump. Cost just under $500 for parts and labor to replace pump and filter - I didn't mind too much, I can't imagine doing the work myself (novice to automotive work - if it'* not in Haynes, I haven't a clue).
Seemed OK, but at this point I've had it for just over a week and already two problems:

1. Several days after I got it back, I was driving to work. Drove about half an hour, then stopped for two minutes to put air in one of the tires. It started running rough almost immediately, check engine light came on, and it was "jerking" forward. I pulled the car over to the side of the road, turned it off, checked fluids, and tried restarting. Took several seconds of cranking before it caught, but it ran smoothly the rest of the trip. It hasn't repeated this particular problem since then.

2. Last night, I was driving in a city and the "low gas" indicator had just come on. I parked on a side street with a slight downward incline, visited some friends for a few hours, and then came back. Car refused to start. I could hear the fuel pump turning on and pressurizing the line, it would crank, catch for a second, and then immediately die. No response if I floored the accelerator after it caught. A friend and I pushed it to a parking lot at the bottom of the hill that was perfectly level, and tried again. This time it started, ran for the two blocks to a gas station, filled the tank, and so far it hasn't happened again.

Additional symptoms:
There is a strong smell of gas (briefly) when the car is first started (This was confirmed by a friend)
For the last day or two before the second incident, the gas gauge showed random changes, going up and down by over 1/8 of the tank as I was driving.

Any thoughts ? I haven't a clue where to begin testing this, and I'll probably try taking it back to the garage for a second look later this week. But I figure anything I can check in the meantime can't hurt.

History:
Intake manifold was replaced about 2 years ago (hydrolocked the engine in the middle of winter, man was I lucky it didn't kill the engine!)
Recent replacements: Alternator, fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel pump relay, drive belt, water pump.
nh3800II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2004, 11:39 AM   #18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Purgatory
Posts: 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
vital49 is on a distinguished road
Default

It sounds like your fuel pressure is faulty and is allowing the fuel pressure to bleed down. That will cause delayed starts and a fuel smell.
vital49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2004, 11:44 AM   #19
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,409
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
acg_ssei is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nh3800II
]Additional symptoms:
There is a strong smell of gas (briefly) when the car is first started (This was confirmed by a friend)
Coming through the ventilation system? I'd look under the hood very closely to hunt for gas leaks, and also (if you have some ramps or a lift) under the car along the route of the fuel lines.

Again: Have you pulled the vacuum line off the fuel-pressure regulator yet to check for leakage there?

Quote:
For the last day or two before the second incident, the gas gauge showed random changes, going up and down by over 1/8 of the tank as I was driving.
I wouldn't say that'* unusual; mine does it, too, especially when it'* almost empty. Is it possible that yours has been doing that all along, but you hadn't noticed it until you began really studying the dashboard to find symptoms?
acg_ssei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2004, 02:27 PM   #20
Senior Member
True Car Nut
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 3,459
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
big_news_1 is on a distinguished road
Default

this has the same symptoms of our '95 olds 88 when it experienced computer malfunction. see if your garage can check it somehow to see if it'* performing correctly. our 88 acted like it was out of gas, it would run for a few seconds but then die. no expert, but this is my two cents.
big_news_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HELP !! Wheel bearing ? half shaft ? noise at 40 mph gearheads needed goldfinger22 Buick 24 03-10-2012 08:07 PM
emergency plumbing help needed... 88bonnsse Lounge 7 04-24-2008 07:16 PM
Turn signal lever mechanical problem kicksock 1992-1999 2 10-28-2007 04:32 PM
Suspension question (not mechanical problem) Pearl_bonnie02 General GM Chat 9 03-06-2007 12:42 PM
92 SSEI scan Gearheads needed (update 3-23-06) GAMEOVER 1992-1999 16 03-24-2006 04:54 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:22 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.