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Old 06-21-2007, 07:32 PM   #1
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Default ECC Air Recirculation/ Air Mix Door

I just finished replacing my engine. Everything seems to be working fine except a few minor problems. First I have browsed the forums and found much discussion on a few of the issues but not much on others. 1st my temp flashes for a min or so on startup but the air mix door seems to be working correctly for the most part. I have read that this could indicate a fault with air mix door and it may need to be calibrated from what I have read.


But my recirculate door for MAX A/C doesn't seem to be working I have seen some info on this but nothing on diagnosing the problem of why it'* not working. Fuse related, vacuum? Any thought'* or ideas?

Sorry forgot to mention 95 Bonny SE with ECC.
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Old 06-22-2007, 09:45 PM   #2
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Doors are vacuum, actuators are electric.

That sounds like the airmix actuator problem.
This should help: http://trialsnuts.com/ecc.pdf is showing you the problem

If you don't wantthe hassle of replacing the actuator, do a search on redneck fix



Edit - Dang I read that wrong. Sorry. The problem is the programmer, door, or vacuum. I'd check the door first. On the programmer you have the various colored lines coming out, Purple is the vacuum coming in. You can disconnect the other lines and supply vacuum to them individually to test them. If the recirc door doesn't work then its failed or jammed. If it does work then its the programmer, the rubberish connector likes to gum up on the inside and plug up. You can bypass the rubber connector with 3/8" vacuum line. But pay attention to the color scheme. My programmer used different colors on the inside than on the outside.

If I could find my original post I could let you know what color was for which function...

edit#2

Found it:
Green line puts air out the defrosters with a little out the bottom.
White line put air out the bottom with a little out the defrosters
Neither white nor green will produce a little air out of both defrosters and lower
Black line (looks like navy to me) puts air out of the vents
Orange line close the outside air (turns on recirc)


and it looks like it was 1/8" vac line not 3/8'*.

Heres the link to my thread in there is a pic of the controller with the connector by-passed with vac line as mentioned.
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Old 06-22-2007, 10:33 PM   #3
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Lastly your blinking ECC, since the door is vacuum controller, might be looking to be recalibrated. Search revealed the following.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here'* a summary:
Temperature Valve Link Adjustment
1. Pull valve link from retainer on programmer output crank.
2. Start vehicle; set temperature to 32 deg C (90 F).
3. Allow 45 seconds minimum for programmer motor to move output crank to its full hot position. Then move temperature valve to full hot position; snap valve link back into retainer on output crank.

There are also a couple items I thought I'd mention here, since I didn't see them posted yet. They are basic, but...

- All these tests assume a warm engine with temps outside vehicle at 6 C (43 F).
- If vehicle was recently running, a purge delay of approx. 20 seconds may be encountered before a selected mode is activated. This delay is normal and is designed to prevent windshiled fogging.
- To prevent windshield frosting during cold start up and cool outside temps, the system delays operation modes until the engine is warm (except when defrost is selected).
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Old 06-22-2007, 10:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: ECC Air Recirculation/ Air Mix Door

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoof_88
I just finished replacing my engine. Everything seems to be working fine except a few minor problems. First I have browsed the forums and found much discussion on a few of the issues but not much on others. 1st my temp flashes for a min or so on startup but the air mix door seems to be working correctly for the most part. I have read that this could indicate a fault with air mix door and it may need to be calibrated from what I have read.


But my recirculate door for MAX A/C doesn't seem to be working I have seen some info on this but nothing on diagnosing the problem of why it'* not working. Fuse related, vacuum? Any thought'* or ideas?

Sorry forgot to mention 95 Bonny SE with ECC.
I want to toss in that the recirculate door doesn't close rapidly when vacuum is applied to it like the others. It has a porous plug in the line so that it does it slowly....

Also my ECC in a leSabre started blinking in cooler weather for 90 seconds or so. It was okay in our garage (warm garage) but after cooling off hitting 20 deg air outside it would blink after about 30 seconds. I assume that means it'* low on freon. It sometimes would give another symptom but I'm not sure they were related.

I think also the recirculate is applied when extreme conditions are found on startup... I'd have to verify that but if you ask for cold temps on a very hot day the unit goes into recirculate. So if you're testing, the recirculate may already be on...
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Old 06-23-2007, 12:26 AM   #5
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First of all, a flashing ECC cannot be interpreted by a human being, even by a member of this Forum on a 95. 93 was the last year for self diagnostics.

You need to tell us what FUNCTION is no longer operational. Do you have MODE function? When you select floor or dash vents, does the airflow change? Can you make it hot? What about cold?

The airmix actuator is NOT vacuu controlled as stated in a reply here. It'* electrical. Please carefully troubleshoot it and find what doesn't work, and we'll go from there.

In the meantime, since the engine was replaced, please carefully inspect the little black plastic box between the windshield wiper motor assembly and the maxifuse relay center cover on the firewall under the hood. It looks like part of the maxifuse. Look under the box (vacuum accumulator) and make sure no fittings are broken or disconnected.
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Old 06-25-2007, 02:44 PM   #6
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Will, all modes seem to be working just fine and as should. With the exception that when I first completed the engine swap I was getting hot air even when I turned the ECC temperature all the way down. But that has sense started working correctly with the exception that the air does not seem to be as cold as it should. But, we are talking about a car with 250k+ miles on it. Also haven't put a gauge to the AC to see what the pressure is.

I have inspected the little black plastic box between the windshield wiper motor assembly and the maxifuse relay center cover on the firewall under the hood all looks fine. I will double check again. It seems to me that when I used hit the recirculate button you could hear a distinct change in the air being blown out of the vents it almost sounded like the fan kicked up another notch. I don't hear that anymore when I hit the recirculate button.

The temperature flash on the ECC does only seem to happen for a few min'*. after I turn the A/C or heat on. I thought at first it did it every time I started the car but that doesn't seem to be the case. If I can provide anymore useful info let me know. But I think I might need to check the lines at the programmer that Tim was talking about.

Another step in diagnosing the problem. I started home yesterday from work but didn't turn the A/C on until I had driven the car for several miles. It never would get cold like it should. So I tried everything as far as messing with temp settings and modes. Nothing seemed to work. While setting still in a traffic jam I heard what sounded like a door closing on the passenger side. So I figured the air/mix door finally moved over to the correct position. I tried the A/C again but it still wouldn't blow cold air like it should. After deciding to stop and get something cold to drink. When I started the car back up and turned the A/C on immediately in started blowing cold air like it should. Not real sure what is going on here.

I still think I need to recalibrate the air/mix door and check the vacuum lines below the maxifuse panel.
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:38 PM   #7
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Flashing ECC is ONLY a sign that the programmer is sensing a fault in "something" within the sytstem. No way to know what the exact fault is without a "Tech" scanner plugged in.

Now, reading your symptoms, it would appear that the air mix door may be acting erratic, which is what mine did. Sometimes it would blow cold sometimes hot. Often, when it was blowing hot, I could turn the car off and restart and it would blow cold, so I am guessing that the gear in the airmix door actuator may be beginning to crack.

On the recirulated air, my car does indeed "kick up" the fan when in "recirculate" mode. Not sure why your'* is not functioning....I'd need to look up the process and see how the system is supposed to function and whether vacuum or electronics is the driving force.

There may be a possiblity that the progammer is going bad, causing both problems, but let'* see what we can come up with before assuming that is the root of the problems. Unfortunately, without the ECC codes, we are shooting in the dark, somewhat.
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Old 07-02-2007, 09:24 AM   #8
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Well guys, I got to tare into this thing over the weekend and found the dreaded split gear on the air/mix door motor. :( guess I will be replacing it. Hopefully that will cure my hot and cold air issues. One thing I did notice that maybe you guys help enlighten me on is that I had to drive my car to work with all the programmer and everything unhooked. I could hear the vacuum being pulled except when I accelerated hard, It seemed to stop pulling vacuum. Any ideas why or if this a problem?

I'm still not sure why the recirculate door is not working. But thought that why I had everything a part I would use like a brake bleeding kit and put vacuum on the recirculate line to see if I can make it work. Does this sound reasonable or should I test it by some other means?

Thanks again for all the replies and post they have very useful so far especially the link to the ecc swap from a 93 to 95!!! Great info!!!
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Old 08-08-2007, 05:53 PM   #9
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I am having the same issue now with my 1995 SLE, my recirculate does absolutley nothing, I also get a flashing temp during startup very rarely and then it goes away. Everything else seems to work fine...hot/cold, setting the air to go where I want, just I have no recirculate. What Should I do to diagnose the issue, along with our friend here...?
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Old 08-08-2007, 06:10 PM   #10
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I will try to remember to look up and investigate the "recirulation" function in the FSM, tonight. Again, a flashing ECC indicates the programmer has sensed a fault in the HVAC system. The display will flash upon start-up as long as a fault is detected and will stop flashing after a few seconds. If the fault corrects itself or is intermittent, then the ECC may stop flashing upon start-up as well after a certain number (not sure how many but I think it is 20 or 30) of starts occur without a fault being detected.
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